[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Reputation systems are not just nice to have (was Re: What we want redux)

Wed Oct 4 18:01:43 UTC 2017

One more thought - sort of reflections on the last call, and where we are
at. I think we are wasting time because we are being asked to come up with
an RDS on the basis existing Whois policies including exemptions available,
conflict with GDPR or other potentially more strict data protection regimes
we have not studied. This is a big mistake. It is not necessary. It’s
pretty clear to me that a privacy impact assessment is needed in designing
the next generation of Whois, which should run in parallel with Whois at
least for a while if not foreseeably forever, with the goal of improving
Whois functionality, which clearly at least to me, can be greatly improved.
We just have to make sure it functions as intended.

So I don’t see why our work needs to create all this conflict deciding
about existing Whois policies frankly, which we clearly have not adequately
addressed because we have never studied the exemptions available etc.  And
this group would be a lot more productive frankly, if we framed our charter
in that regard differently. Just food for thought.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 12:31 PM jonathan matkowsky <
jonathan.matkowsky at riskiq.net> wrote:

> Hello, Maxim ,
>
> I disagree with your analysis. The memo supports that economic
> repercussions for cyber security firms does not take precedence over
> fundamental human rights, and that private cyber security firms are not
> exempt under GDPR currently, absent specific legislation coming into effect
> consistent with GDPR. I agree with both of these conclusions.
>
> Specifying the purposes of processing is expressly outside the scope of
> the memorandum, and in that regard, private cyber security firms may very
> well play a special role. I believe they do. This doesn’t mean GDPR exempts
> them but that they may need very thinly gated access to certain information
> that registrants consent to providing for certain specified purposes.
>
> I also understand there may be a privacy framework in Europe that
> addresses public directories that may still be in effect when GDPR is
> implemented, and additional analysis may be needed in this regard, but I am
> still looking into this as it has been only anecdotal information provided
> to me at this time. I hope to have more in that regard by next week.
>
> Cheers,
> Jonathan Matkowsky
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:04 AM Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello Chuck,
>>
>> Reading the memo I came to the conclusion that all cyber investigating
>> companies, which do not have accreditation of sorts of at least one EU
>> country
>> are pure third parties and police exemptions from personal data
>> legislation will not work for them.
>>
>> (it was page 9)
>>
>> Following this logic, they play no special role according to GDPR and
>> thus I am not sure we can make it a primary purpose (or at least I am not
>> sure it will be accepted by EU DPAs).
>>
>> P.s: I do understand importance of anti-abuse cyber investigations, but
>> not sure how to fit their special role into purposes, compliant with GDPR.
>> And which might be worse, local Law Enforcement do not fit either (if
>> they are not from EU or there is no special treaty between EU and that
>> country).
>>
>> Sincerely Yours,
>>
>> Maxim Alzoba
>> Special projects manager,
>> International Relations Department,
>> FAITID
>>
>> m. +7 916 6761580(+whatsapp)
>> skype oldfrogger
>>
>> Current UTC offset: +3.00 (.Moscow)
>>
>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 16:08, Chuck <consult at cgomes.com> wrote:
>>
>> Note that the WG has already reached rough consensus that anti-abuse is a
>> legitimate purpose for at least the minimum public data set.  (WG Agreement
>> 11:  “Criminal Investigation & DNS Abuse Mitigation is a legitimate
>> purpose for “Minimum Public Data Set” collection.”
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>> *From:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org [
>> mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *allison nixon
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:57 PM
>> *To:* Jeremy Malcolm <jmalcolm at eff.org>
>> *Cc:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org >> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org <
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Reputation systems are not just nice to
>> have (was Re: What we want redux)
>>
>> Thank you for the clarification. I still disagree with it but it makes
>> more sense.
>>
>> I would like to highlight the ICANN webpage on WHOIS:
>>
>> https://whois.icann.org/en/what-whois-data-used
>>
>>
>> What is WHOIS data used for?
>> WHOIS is indispensable to the smooth operation of the DNS and is used for
>> many legitimate purposes, including:
>>
>>
>>    - To contact network administrators for resolution of technical
>>       matters related to networks associated with a domain name (e.g., DNS or
>>       routing matter, origin and path analysis of DoS and other network-based
>>       attacks).
>>       - To obtain the real world identity, business location and contact
>>       information of an online merchant or business, or generally, any
>>       organization that has an online presence.
>>       - To establish or look into an identity in cyberspace, and as part
>>       of an incident response following an Internet or computer attack. (Security
>>       professionals and law enforcement agents use WHOIS to identify points of
>>       contact for a domain name.)
>>       - To gather investigative leads (i.e., to identify parties from
>>       whom additional information might be obtained). Law enforcement agents use
>>       WHOIS to find email addresses and attempt to identify the location of an
>>       alleged perpetrator of a crime involving fraud.
>>       - To investigate spam, law enforcement agents look to the WHOIS
>>       database to collect information on the website advertised in the spam.
>>
>> Those and others are currently listed on ICANN's website as uses for
>> WHOIS data. To reject anti-abuse as a purpose would be to shift away from
>> the currently accepted purposes of WHOIS.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Jeremy Malcolm <jmalcolm at eff.org> wrote:
>>
>> On 3/10/17 2:31 pm, John Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg wrote:
>> >
>> > To confirm and clarify your meaning... you don't think there should be
>> > a WHOIS/RDS and the only means to contact a domain owner should be on
>> > their website. Is that correct?
>> >
>>
>> No, we are fine with registrants making some information available
>> through WHOIS/RDS subject to data protection law (eg. informed consent,
>> etc).  But we don't think that a starting point for the design of the
>> RDS has to take the requirements of anti-abuse specialists or reputation
>> systems as an essential element.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jeremy Malcolm
>> Senior Global Policy Analyst
>> Electronic Frontier Foundation
>> https://eff.org
>> jmalcolm at eff.org
>>
>> Tel: 415.436.9333 ext 161
>>
>> :: Defending Your Rights in the Digital World ::
>>
>> Public key: https://www.eff.org/files/2016/11/27/key_jmalcolm.txt
>> PGP fingerprint: 75D2 4C0D 35EA EA2F 8CA8 8F79 4911 EC4A EDDF 1122
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> _________________________________
>> Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>
> --
> Jonathan Matkowsky
>
-- 
Jonathan Matkowsky

-- 
*******************************************************************
This message was sent from RiskIQ, and is intended only for the designated 
recipient(s). It may contain confidential or proprietary information and 
may be subject to confidentiality protections. If you are not a designated 
recipient, you may not review, copy or distribute this message. If you 
receive this in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete 
this message. Thank you.

*******************************************************************
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/attachments/20171004/9dc927bb/attachment-0001.html>