[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Reputation systems are not just nice to have (was Re: What we want redux)

Wed Oct 4 18:29:14 UTC 2017

Thanks this is helpful, Marika.

So I am not sure it is worth getting derailed by that question we debated
on the last call.

Jonathan

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 1:25 PM Marika Konings <marika.konings at icann.org>
wrote:

> Jonathan, all,
>
>
>
> If I may take this opportunity to remind everyone about the WG’s objective
> for phase 1:
>
>
>
> *During Phase 1,** the PDP WG should, at a minimum, attempt to reach
> consensus recommendations regarding the following questions:*
>
>    -
> *What are the fundamental requirements for gTLD registration data? **When
>    addressing this question, the PDP WG should consider, at a minimum, users
>    and purposes and associated access, accuracy, data element, and privacy
>    requirements.*
>    - *Is a new policy framework and next-generation RDS needed to address
>    these requirements?*
>       - If yes, what cross-cutting requirements must a next-generation
>       RDS address, including coexistence, compliance, system model, and cost,
>       benefit, and risk analysis requirements?
>       - If no, does the current WHOIS policy framework sufficiently
>       address these requirements? If not, what revisions are recommended to the
>       current WHOIS policy framework to do so?
>
>
>
> As such, the WG is asked to focus on requirements, not on existing WHOIS
> policies, and only when those requirements have achieved consensus, the
> question is asked whether a new policy framework is needed or whether the
> existing WHOIS policy framework can address these requirements (with or
> without modifications). For further details, please see the WG charter:
> https://community.icann.org/x/E4xlAw.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Marika
>
>
>
> *From: *<gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of jonathan
> matkowsky <jonathan.matkowsky at riskiq.net>
> *Date: *Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 12:02
> *To: *Chuck Gomes <consult at cgomes.com>, Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba at gmail.com>
> *Cc: *"gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>
>
> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Reputation systems are not just nice to
> have (was Re: What we want redux)
>
> One more thought - sort of reflections on the last call, and where we are
> at. I think we are wasting time because we are being asked to come up with
> an RDS on the basis existing Whois policies including exemptions available,
> conflict with GDPR or other potentially more strict data protection regimes
> we have not studied. This is a big mistake. It is not necessary. It’s
> pretty clear to me that a privacy impact assessment is needed in designing
> the next generation of Whois, which should run in parallel with Whois at
> least for a while if not foreseeably forever, with the goal of improving
> Whois functionality, which clearly at least to me, can be greatly improved.
> We just have to make sure it functions as intended.
>
>
>
> So I don’t see why our work needs to create all this conflict deciding
> about existing Whois policies frankly, which we clearly have not adequately
> addressed because we have never studied the exemptions available etc.  And
> this group would be a lot more productive frankly, if we framed our charter
> in that regard differently. Just food for thought.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 12:31 PM jonathan matkowsky <
> jonathan.matkowsky at riskiq.net> wrote:
>
> Hello, Maxim ,
>
>
>
> I disagree with your analysis. The memo supports that economic
> repercussions for cyber security firms does not take precedence over
> fundamental human rights, and that private cyber security firms are not
> exempt under GDPR currently, absent specific legislation coming into effect
> consistent with GDPR. I agree with both of these conclusions.
>
>
>
> Specifying the purposes of processing is expressly outside the scope of
> the memorandum, and in that regard, private cyber security firms may very
> well play a special role. I believe they do. This doesn’t mean GDPR exempts
> them but that they may need very thinly gated access to certain information
> that registrants consent to providing for certain specified purposes.
>
>
>
> I also understand there may be a privacy framework in Europe that
> addresses public directories that may still be in effect when GDPR is
> implemented, and additional analysis may be needed in this regard, but I am
> still looking into this as it has been only anecdotal information provided
> to me at this time. I hope to have more in that regard by next week.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jonathan Matkowsky
>
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:04 AM Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Chuck,
>
>
>
> Reading the memo I came to the conclusion that all cyber investigating
> companies, which do not have accreditation of sorts of at least one EU
> country
>
> are pure third parties and police exemptions from personal data
> legislation will not work for them.
>
>
>
> (it was page 9)
>
>
>
> Following this logic, they play no special role according to GDPR and thus
> I am not sure we can make it a primary purpose (or at least I am not sure
> it will be accepted by EU DPAs).
>
>
>
> P.s: I do understand importance of anti-abuse cyber investigations, but
> not sure how to fit their special role into purposes, compliant with GDPR.
>
> And which might be worse, local Law Enforcement do not fit either (if they
> are not from EU or there is no special treaty between EU and that country).
>
>
>
> Sincerely Yours,
>
> Maxim Alzoba
> Special projects manager,
> International Relations Department,
> FAITID
>
> m. +7 916 6761580(+whatsapp)
>
> skype oldfrogger
>
>
>
> Current UTC offset: +3.00 (.Moscow)
>
> On Oct 4, 2017, at 16:08, Chuck <consult at cgomes.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Note that the WG has already reached rough consensus that anti-abuse is a
> legitimate purpose for at least the minimum public data set.  (WG Agreement
> 11:  “Criminal Investigation & DNS Abuse Mitigation is a legitimate
> purpose for “Minimum Public Data Set” collection.”
>
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> *From:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org [
> mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *allison nixon
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:57 PM
> *To:* Jeremy Malcolm <jmalcolm at eff.org>
> *Cc:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org >> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org <
> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Reputation systems are not just nice to
> have (was Re: What we want redux)
>
>
>
> Thank you for the clarification. I still disagree with it but it makes
> more sense.
>
>
>
> I would like to highlight the ICANN webpage on WHOIS:
>
>
>
> https://whois.icann.org/en/what-whois-data-used[whois.icann.org]
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__whois.icann.org_en_what-2Dwhois-2Ddata-2Dused&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=hy29y5oLdG0tXfZj90EdaFqtIjW8hFx9n3ocrYm0bx0&s=JKzp7N4Sg-mIiNVgTwz3qtI2baj9UwnjUwEDpKpANTc&e=>
>
>
>
> What is WHOIS data used for?
>
> WHOIS is indispensable to the smooth operation of the DNS and is used for
> many legitimate purposes, including:
>
>
>    - To contact network administrators for resolution of technical
>       matters related to networks associated with a domain name (e.g., DNS or
>       routing matter, origin and path analysis of DoS and other network-based
>       attacks).
>       - To obtain the real world identity, business location and contact
>       information of an online merchant or business, or generally, any
>       organization that has an online presence.
>       - To establish or look into an identity in cyberspace, and as part
>       of an incident response following an Internet or computer attack. (Security
>       professionals and law enforcement agents use WHOIS to identify points of
>       contact for a domain name.)
>       - To gather investigative leads (i.e., to identify parties from
>       whom additional information might be obtained). Law enforcement agents use
>       WHOIS to find email addresses and attempt to identify the location of an
>       alleged perpetrator of a crime involving fraud.
>       - To investigate spam, law enforcement agents look to the WHOIS
>       database to collect information on the website advertised in the spam.
>
> Those and others are currently listed on ICANN's website as uses for WHOIS
> data. To reject anti-abuse as a purpose would be to shift away from the
> currently accepted purposes of WHOIS.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Jeremy Malcolm <jmalcolm at eff.org> wrote:
>
> On 3/10/17 2:31 pm, John Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg wrote:
> >
> > To confirm and clarify your meaning... you don't think there should be
> > a WHOIS/RDS and the only means to contact a domain owner should be on
> > their website. Is that correct?
> >
>
> No, we are fine with registrants making some information available
> through WHOIS/RDS subject to data protection law (eg. informed consent,
> etc).  But we don't think that a starting point for the design of the
> RDS has to take the requirements of anti-abuse specialists or reputation
> systems as an essential element.
>
>
> --
> Jeremy Malcolm
> Senior Global Policy Analyst
> Electronic Frontier Foundation
>
> https://eff.org[eff.org]
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eff.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=hy29y5oLdG0tXfZj90EdaFqtIjW8hFx9n3ocrYm0bx0&s=hHH7NnvBpneSbZeS6duetlM5mUY7jvJdJHd0fxvatdk&e=>
>
>
> jmalcolm at eff.org
>
> Tel: 415.436.9333 ext 161
>
> :: Defending Your Rights in the Digital World ::
>
> Public key: https://www.eff.org/files/2016/11/27/key_jmalcolm.txt[eff.org]
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.eff.org_files_2016_11_27_key-5Fjmalcolm.txt&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=hy29y5oLdG0tXfZj90EdaFqtIjW8hFx9n3ocrYm0bx0&s=Iumsa0mEzxN2yyNX8NTDY5GKp0PvP0DdBIIRQJOCLvI&e=>
>
>
> PGP fingerprint: 75D2 4C0D 35EA EA2F 8CA8 8F79 4911 EC4A EDDF 1122
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> --
>
> _________________________________
> Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.
>
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> --
>
> Jonathan Matkowsky
>
> --
>
> Jonathan Matkowsky
>
>
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-- 
Jonathan Matkowsky

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