[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] FW: IMPORTANT
Volker Greimann
vgreimann at key-systems.net
Mon Oct 16 09:07:33 UTC 2017
We will also have to differentiate etween public directories that exist
due to a legislatory requirement and those that have come into being
without any such justification due to "reasons".
Best,
Volker
Am 15.10.2017 um 09:42 schrieb jonathan matkowsky:
> Hi, Ayden. I am catching up. The thing I don't get is that we need to
> look at whether there is an exception made for public directories in
> the ePrivacy Directive. If there is such an exception, and it is also
> the case that GDPR doesn't supersede the ePrivacy Directive, than I am
> having difficulty reconciling that. I think we should ask ICANN staff
> if they have looked into this issue or come across it--so we have
> taken this into consideration without having to guess.
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com
> <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi Jonathan,
>
> It might indeed be a Regulation if adopted, but this is just a
> proposal for now. Paragraph 30 of the European Commission's
> proposed text states, "The right to privacy and to protection of
> the personal data of a natural person requires that end-users that
> are natural persons are asked for consent before their personal
> data are included in a directory. The legitimate interest of legal
> entities requires that end-users that are legal entities have the
> right to object to the data related to them being included in a
> directory."
>
> I do not think it is appropriate for us as a Working Group to try
> to predict what the outcome will be here; will the proposed text
> change [this clause hasn't changed over the past 12 months...],
> will it be adopted at all? I think it will be more productive if
> we stick with what is definitive; that GDPR has been adopted and
> enforcement begins in May 2018, and yes, the e-Privacy Directive
> from 2002 (and again, not a Regulation) has been transposed into
> national laws in EU member states.
>
> I think the best thing we can do is rely on the legal advice that
> was commissioned for us, and tailored to respond to the questions
> that we as a working group sought answers to. Among them, I draw
> your attention to the answer to question 9. I think the final
> paragraph, which discusses proportionality in the context of
> publicly accessible databases, is very relevant when you cite the
> e-Privacy Directive's references to subscriber directories. Thanks.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Ayden Férdeline
> linkedin.com/in/ferdeline <http://www.linkedin.com/in/ferdeline>
>
>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] FW: IMPORTANT
>> Local Time: 13 October 2017 9:23 PM
>> UTC Time: 13 October 2017 20:23
>> From: jonathan.matkowsky at riskiq.net
>> <mailto:jonathan.matkowsky at riskiq.net>
>> To: Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com
>> <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>, Stephanie Perrin
>> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
>> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>>,
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>,
>> theo geurts <gtheo at xs4all.nl <mailto:gtheo at xs4all.nl>>
>>
>> I think the proposed amendment to the eprivacy directive in
>> effect is being debated as a regulation
>>
>> http://www.informationpolicycentre.com/uploads/5/7/1/0/57104281/cipl_comments_on_the_proposal_for_an_eprivacy_regulation_final_draft_11_september_2017.pdf
>> <http://www.informationpolicycentre.com/uploads/5/7/1/0/57104281/cipl_comments_on_the_proposal_for_an_eprivacy_regulation_final_draft_11_september_2017.pdf>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:05 PM Ayden Férdeline
>> <icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Please remember that there is a difference between a
>> Regulation (which GDPR is) and a Directive (which is
>> what e-Privacy is). I think this distinction is important in
>> this conversation. Thanks
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Ayden Férdeline
>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 8:59 pm, jonathan matkowsky
>> <jonathan.matkowsky at riskiq.net
>> <mailto:jonathan.matkowsky at riskiq.net>> wrote:
>>> So I am trying to piece this all together. It seems like
>>> there may be a possibility that the eprivacy directive will
>>> eventually be updated by the regulation but that there is
>>> still intense debates over the regulation, that GDPR doesn’t
>>> trump the directive itself, and that there may be exceptions
>>> in the directive for a public database when GDPR comes into
>>> effect.
>>>
>>> If the above is true than GDPR may not actually cover the
>>> public Whois when it comes into effect unless and until the
>>> regulation comes into effect (which is still being debated
>>> and likely won’t be resolved by the time GDPR comes into
>>> effect) reconciling inconsistencies between GDPR and the
>>> applicable privacy directive that has some kind of exception
>>> for a public directory?
>>>
>>> Again, it’s imperative we get clarity around this issue to
>>> do our work properly.
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 11:29 AM theo geurts
>>> <gtheo at xs4all.nl <mailto:gtheo at xs4all.nl>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.privacytrust.com/guidance/gdpr-vs-eprivacy-regulation.html
>>> <https://www.privacytrust.com/guidance/gdpr-vs-eprivacy-regulation.html>
>>>
>>>
>>> Eprivacy seems to be delayed though
>>> https://iapp.org/news/a/libe-eprivacy-vote-delayed-juri-itre-and-edps-weigh-in/
>>> <https://iapp.org/news/a/libe-eprivacy-vote-delayed-juri-itre-and-edps-weigh-in/>
>>>
>>>
>>> Theo
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13-10-2017 20:22, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I believe the Art 29 group has commented on this
>>>> matter, please check their website for the relevant
>>>> documents, as I don't believe we have included them in
>>>> our document respository.
>>>>
>>>> Stephanie Perrin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2017-10-13 14:16, Ayden Férdeline wrote:
>>>>> Hi Jonathan,
>>>>>
>>>>>> the Privacy Directive, as I understand it is not
>>>>>> superseded by GDPR
>>>>>
>>>>> I presume you are referring to the European Union's
>>>>> e-Privacy Directive (2002/58/EC). If so, from what I
>>>>> understand it is currently being updated so to be
>>>>> consistent with the GDPR. As of last month the
>>>>> proposed revisions were with the Council of the
>>>>> European Union. I'm not sure what movement there has
>>>>> been since then.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ayden Férdeline
>>>>> linkedin.com/in/ferdeline
>>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/ferdeline>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] FW: IMPORTANT
>>>>>> Local Time: 13 October 2017 1:51 PM
>>>>>> UTC Time: 13 October 2017 12:51
>>>>>> From: jonathan.matkowsky at riskiq.net
>>>>>> <mailto:jonathan.matkowsky at riskiq.net>
>>>>>> To: Chuck <consult at cgomes.com>
>>>>>> <mailto:consult at cgomes.com>,
>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chuck, I don’t understand how anyone can share
>>>>>> government perspective, and not represent a group in
>>>>>> doing so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wanted to know whether leadership team has decided
>>>>>> to conduct a DPIA, and if so, whether you are using
>>>>>> the UK’s guide. I would think while it makes sense to
>>>>>> be looking at the purposes of collection, what is
>>>>>> primary and secondary cannot be the focus because
>>>>>> that presupposes knowing who the controller is. We
>>>>>> have not yet decided that as a working group. The
>>>>>> memo did not necessarily take into account the role
>>>>>> of offering accreditation services and ICANN’s mission.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But it appears whether it’s primary or secondary
>>>>>> doesn’t matter for purposes of defining purposes of
>>>>>> collecting each data element.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are not defining the purposes of collecting Whois
>>>>>> data but the data elements of the next generation of
>>>>>> Whois. That’s what I meant the other day regarding RDS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To do that, we are not limited to the data elements
>>>>>> that currently exist as when we go through this
>>>>>> exercise to fulfill ICANN’s mission from ICANN’s
>>>>>> perspective including all those involved in
>>>>>> cybersecurity, or to offer accredited registration
>>>>>> services. The primary purpose of accredited services
>>>>>> is to fulfill the mission, and to provide that staple
>>>>>> of a service to those that register names with an
>>>>>> accredited registrar. It seems we need to carefully
>>>>>> consider not only Spec 3 to the 2013 RAA but also
>>>>>> Paragraph 14 to the 2017 global amendment to the
>>>>>> registry agreement which says unique DNS records may
>>>>>> be supportable in the RDS if RDAP supports it. We
>>>>>> therefore need to know what RDAP can support, and at
>>>>>> the very least need to consider all elements from RFC
>>>>>> 7485. This is not a simple exercise, and will take
>>>>>> **significant** time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As we undertake this, we must know from WS law firm
>>>>>> what role the public directory service plays in the
>>>>>> Privacy Directive, as I understand it is not
>>>>>> superseded by GDPR, and Whois is a public directory.
>>>>>> This is critical analysis we are possibly missing.
>>>>>> Can you ask them to address this ASAP please?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Jonathan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 11:35 AM Chuck
>>>>>> <consult at cgomes.com <mailto:consult at cgomes.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have 34 volunteers at present; it would help a
>>>>>> lot if we could get a lot more so that teams will
>>>>>> not have to cover more than one of the nine
>>>>>> purposes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks much to the 34 of you who have
>>>>>> volunteered. I hope many more will complete the
>>>>>> poll and volunteer in the remaining 6 or so hours
>>>>>> of the poll.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are particularly low for the government
>>>>>> perspective. Remember, team members are not being
>>>>>> asked to represent any group but rather to share
>>>>>> their understanding of the perspective.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chuck
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>
>>>>>> [mailto: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>] *On
>>>>>> Behalf Of *Lisa Phifer
>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 10, 2017 10:19 AM
>>>>>> *To:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>>> *Subject:* [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] IMPORTANT:
>>>>>> Invitation for Poll from 10 October Meeting
>>>>>> *Importance:* High
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In follow-up to this week’s WG meeting, *all RDS
>>>>>> PDP WG Members* are encouraged to participate in
>>>>>> the following poll:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/5LXJRF3
>>>>>> <https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/5LXJRF3>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Responses should be submitted through the above
>>>>>> URL. For offline reference, a PDF of poll
>>>>>> questions can also be found at:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/66086772/Poll-from-10OctoberCall.pdf
>>>>>> <https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/66086772/Poll-from-10OctoberCall.pdf>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *This poll will close at COB Wednesday 11
>>>>>> October. Expressions of interest gathered through
>>>>>> this poll will be used form drafting teams.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please note that you _must be a WG Member_ to
>>>>>> participate in polls. If you are a WG Observer
>>>>>> wishing to participate in polls, you must first
>>>>>> contact gnso-secs at icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-secs at icann.org> to upgrade to WG
>>>>>> Member.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lisa
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>>>>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jonathan Matkowsky
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ******************************
>>>>>> ****************************** *******
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>>>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>>>> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
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>>>
>>> --
>>> Jonathan Matkowsky
>>>
>>> ************************************************************
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>>
>> --
>> Jonathan Matkowsky
>>
>> *******************************************************************
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