[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Legal Opinion on GDPR - Part 1

consult at cgomes.com consult at cgomes.com
Wed Oct 25 03:19:00 UTC 2017


Let me again ask that this thread end at this time.  Right now we are
focusing on purposes.

Chuck

-----Original Message-----
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
[mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Michael
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 6:55 PM
To: John Bambenek <jcb at bambenekconsulting.com>; Marika Konings
<marika.konings at icann.org>
Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Legal Opinion on GDPR - Part 1

And there are other registrars already doing privacy by default, even for
corporations when transferring domains, unless you uncheck that option

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 22:48:45 +0200
John Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg  wrote:
> So, this registrar unilaterally violated their contracts for no defined
reason for a law that doesnt come into effect for 7 months. It is this
reckless act of lawlessness which is causing many of us now to deliberate
whether this TLD will effectively be allowed on our networks and on many
ISPs around the world. 
> 
> If they unilaterally violated this ICANN policy, what other ones can we
expect them to violate?
> 
> --
> John Bambenek
> 
>> On Oct 24, 2017, at 21:52, Marika Konings  wrote:
>> 
>> Michael, my understanding is that the ICANN Procedure for Handling WHOIS
Conflicts with Privacy Law is the implementation of a Consensus Policy
developed by the WHOIS Task Force that was adopted back in 2006 by the ICANN
Board (see
https://whois.icann.org/en/revised-icann-procedure-handling-whois-conflicts-
privacy-law). You do raise a good question as to why it is not included in
the list of Consensus Policies  I will follow up with my colleagues
responsible for managing the web-page in question accordingly.
>>  
>> Best regards,
>>  
>> Marika
>>  
>> From:  on behalf of "Michael D. Palage" 
>> Date: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 13:40
>> To: 'Greg Aaron' , 'Volker Greimann' , 'John Bambenek' 
>> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org" 
>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Legal Opinion on GDPR - Part 1
>>  
>> Greg,
>>  
>> I agree that there is an ICANN Procedure For Handling WHOIS Conflicts
with Privacy Law.  However, I do not believe it is a Consensus Policy.  I
think it is important to qualify when using this term Consensus Policy as it
has certain legal significance under ICANNs contracts with registration
authorities.
>>  
>> I believe these are the only true ICANN Consensus Policies, see 
>> https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/registrars/consensus-policies-e
>> n[icann.org]
>>  
>> Best regards,
>>  
>> Michael
>>  
>>  
>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org 
>> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Greg Aaron
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 12:41 PM
>> To: Volker Greimann ; John Bambenek
>> Cc: RDS PDP WG
>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Legal Opinion on GDPR - Part 1
>>  
>> Does anyone know if Mijndomein went through the Revised ICANN Procedure
For Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Law?   It is the procedure to
allow gTLD registry/registrars to demonstrate when they are prevented by
local laws from fully complying with the provisions of ICANN contracts
regarding personal data in WHOIS.
>>  
>> It is an ICANN Consensus Policy, and it was just revised to take care 
>> of exactly this problem.  
>> https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/whois-privacy-conflicts-procedu
>> re-2008-01-17-en[icann.org]
>>  
>> All best,
>> --Greg
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org 
>> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Volker 
>> Greimann
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 11:08 AM
>> To: John Bambenek
>> Cc: RDS PDP WG
>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Legal Opinion on GDPR - Part 1
>>  
>> They are not blocking all of whois. Those with a legal right to receive
the data still can.
>> 
>> This is not an act of belligerance, this is an attempt to comply with 
>> legal requirements while still providing some access. So yes, indeed, 
>> Legal Requirement (Action) -> Compliant implementation (Reaction),
>> 
>>  
>> Am 24.10.2017 um 16:49 schrieb John Bambenek:
>> They are picking a fight to make a point. There is no legal requirement
to block all whois. GDPR isnt even in effect yet. The reason to block them
is and artifact of belligerence they initiated. Like I said, every action
has an equal and opposite reaction. 
>> 
>> --
>> John Bambenek
>> 
>> On Oct 24, 2017, at 15:51, Volker Greimann  wrote:
>> 
>> Why should these TLds be put on block lists absent any evidence of
significant abusive use? Purely as a punitive measure for complying with
legal requirements? That is not reasonable.
>> 
>> Volker
>> 
>>  
>> Am 24.10.2017 um 15:24 schrieb Dotzero:
>> I don't think that is the reaction John was thinking of Volker. 
>> 
>> One reaction (proposal that has actually been made this morning) to the
going dark steps taken by Mijndomein is to add FRLregistry and dotAmsterdam
to block lists or RPZ. I don't know whether this proposal will gain traction
or not. Other potential reactions might include blocking domains registered
through particular registrars. There is certainly a potential for
balkanization of the Internet from these sorts of actions.
>> 
>> Personally I'm taking a wait and see approach before deciding what to
propose internally within my organization for traffic originating from TLDs
or registrars who have gone dark.
>> 
>> Michael Hammer
>>  
>> On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 7:00 AM, Volker Greimann  wrote:
>> True. Legal Requirement (Action) -> Compliant implementation 
>> (Reaction)
>> 
>> Seriously though, I see this as a legitimate proposal for a registry
operator to both meet the needs of law enforcement to access this data and
the data protection requirements in the jurisdictions that affect their
business.
>> 
>> ICANN should not have turned this into a compliance matter, but now that
they did, It is good to see them stand up and defend their need to remain
compliant with applicable laws. I see this as a model of how all Whois data
for European data subjects will likely look in less than 6 months.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Volker
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> Am 24.10.2017 um 12:42 schrieb John Bambenek:
>> Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. 
>> 
>> --
>> John Bambenek
>> 
>> On Oct 24, 2017, at 11:48, Volker Greimann  wrote:
>> 
>> Fighting the good fight.
>> 
>>  
>> Am 24.10.2017 um 11:32 schrieb Kris Seeburn:
>> This might be interesting news.
>>  
>> http://domainincite.com/22218-amsterdam-refuses-to-publish-whois-reco
>> rds-as-gdpr-row-escalates[domainincite.com]
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> On Oct 24, 2017, at 07:59, jonathan matkowsky  wrote:
>>  
>> Hi, Chuck, Regarding below, has a decision been made by leadership
whether to invite the org folks to meet with us in Abu Dhabi as Greg A. was
suggesting?
>>  
>> Thanks
>> Jonathan
>>  
>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 2:46 AM jonathan matkowsky  wrote:
>> The other week I was asking this group about the significance of the
ePrivacy Directive and asked to get some feedback.
>>  
>> The memo says:
>>  
>> While our memorandum series will primarily focus on the GDPR, we will
also address other relevant pieces of EU legislation that may have effect on
the processing of personal data through the Whois services, such as but not
limited to the EU ePrivacy Directive 2002/58/EC and the proposed new EU
ePrivacy Regulation aimed to replace the said directive in May 2018.
>>  
>> This is exactly what I was asking to understand.
>>  
>> That said, I do want to continue our work, but I also have limited
resourcesas do we allso the sooner we can get this information, the better.
It may help us in deciding the most efficient way forward, or at least help
confirm we arent wasting our time in how we move forward here?
>>  
>> Thanks
>> Jonathan
>>  
>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 9:40 AM Greg Aaron  wrote:
>> Dear Chuck:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> ICANN meetings are for information-sharing.  And since we have two
efforts working on some of the exact same issues,  I suggest that some
info-sharing could be very helpful to our volunteers. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> The ICANN Org effort with Hamilton is clearly going to be more
comprehensive than the narrow effort our WG has received from Wilson
Sonsini.  And as you know, the Org effort will set a precedent which will be
important for our WG to understand. 
>>  
>> The new memo, and those to come, are about the impact of GDPR on
registration data and WHOIS.  I draw your attention to the end of the blog
post:
>> As a reminder, this legal analysis is intended to serve as building 
>> block for community discussions about how to approach GDPR issues in the
domain name space. [WHOIS.] Here's where we need help from the
multistakeholder community:
>> Please review the initial legal analysis and provide feedback. This
includes identifying possible questions, and how best to interact with data
protection agencies and others to get to the next step of the analysis.
>> It will be helpful to receive your feedback at the earliest opportunity,
so as to inform the upcoming discussions at ICANN60, and to feed into future
iterations of the legal analysis.
>>  
>> The RDS WG is the main place where the multistakeholder community is
considering WHOIS.   So one would think that ICANN Org would have already
reached out to our WG.   I am surprised that it has not.   So, I think its
appropriate for us to invite the Org folks in.  The goal is to understand
that work and ask questions.  Maybe the RDS WG could then formulate some
feedback as requested above.  After all, weve been thinking about this stuff
for almost two years now..
>>  
>> As part of the briefing, it would be good to hear about this effort's
schedule and workplan.  The memo says: "We intend to provide a series of
memorandums, which will address different aspects of the issue and where the
scope and topics of each such memorandum will be discussed and agreed with
ICANN. We understand that ICANN intends to make each memorandum publicly
available."  I do not see any of those details in the memo or blog.  For
example, what topics will be the subjects of the forthcoming memos?  Theres
clearly a plan for that.
>>  
>> I have no idea of any of that will come out in the GDPR session on
Thursday, but since that consists of panel presentations, I am unsure and
would prefer that our WG definitely get a briefing and a chance to ask
questions.
>>  
>> All best,
>> --Greg
>>  
>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org 
>> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Stephanie 
>> Perrin
>> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 11:19 AM
>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Legal Opinion on GDPR - Part 1
>>  
>> I am curious as to how the questions are being framed.   Who is the
client, ICANN the MS body, ICANN the CEO and staff (who have been found to
be a co-controller and therefore have an interest in avoiding fines) or
ICANN the Board.
>> 
>> There are different interests at stake here, I  think it would be useful
to get a fuller understanding of how Teresa Swineheart is handling the
development of questions.
>> 
>> Stephanie Perrin
>> 
>>  
>> On 2017-10-19 10:43, Chuck wrote:
>> Greg,
>>  
>> Having just finished reading the Hamilton memo, I don't understand 
>> why you think the WG needs a presentation?  What would a presentation 
>> from Teresa or other ICANN staff person provide us that we couldn't 
>> get from the memo itself and other sources such as the ICANN Blog, etc.?
>>  
>> Can you identify any advice from Hamilton that would supplant work we 
>> have been doing?  If so, please identify it.
>>  
>> In my opinion:
>> - The advice of ways forward fits nicely into our policy development 
>> processes.
>> - The Hamilton Memo confirms much of what we already heard from the 
>> DP experts and Wilson Sonsini so we now have it from three separate
sources.
>> - You are absolutely that we "need to understand and track the legal 
>> advice being made" and that it overlaps what we are doing but I think 
>> that will help us.
>>  
>> Chuck
>>  
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Greg Aaron [mailto:gca at icginc.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 7:25 AM
>> To: Chuck ; 'Alan Greenberg' ;
>> 'GNSO RDS PDP' 
>> Subject: RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Legal Opinion on GDPR - Part 1
>>  
>> Dear WG  leadership:
>>  
>> As we expected, this ICANN Org effort will have a profound effect on 
>> our work.  We will need to understand and track the legal advice 
>> being made, which overlaps with and in some places may supplant work we
have been doing.
>> And the memo's "Finding New Ways Forward"  section (3.9) provides 
>> advice for the policy-making process.  Clearly our WG needs 
>> (deserves) a presentation at Abu Dhabi from Teresa Swinehart, who is
heading up this effort.
>>  
>> Could this be done at the WG meeting on Wednesday 1 November?  
>> Wednesday will be better attended, both in-person and remotely.  
>> (Some members may still be in transit during the WG's early Saturday 
>> morning meeting.  And the Saturday meeting is at a challenging time 
>> for those participating remotely -- ~6:30 a.m. Saturday morning in 
>> Europe /  12:30 a.m. Saturday East Coast USA.)
>>  
>> As part of the briefing, it would be good to hear about this effort's 
>> schedule, workplan, and immediate next steps.  The memo says: "We 
>> intend to provide a series of memorandums, which will address 
>> different aspects of the issue and where the  scope and topics of 
>> each such memorandum will be discussed and agreed with ICANN. We 
>> understand that ICANN intends to make each memorandum publicly
available."
>>  
>> All best,
>> --Greg
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org 
>> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Chuck
>> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 8:51 AM
>> To: 'Alan Greenberg' ; 'GNSO RDS PDP'
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Legal Opinion on GDPR - Part 1
>>  
>> I want to call attention to the following paragraph:
>>  
>> "The memo highlights the complexity of these issues in the domain 
>> name space, and concludes that the current open, publicly available 
>> WHOIS services cannot remain unchanged. The WHOIS system has to 
>> become adaptable to address the GDPR from the European perspective, 
>> as well as other changing regulations around the world."
>>  
>> After input from Data Protection experts, the Wilson Sonsini memo and 
>> now this memo, do any in the WG disagree with this statement?
>>  
>> Chuck
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org 
>> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Alan 
>> Greenberg
>> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 5:04 AM
>> To: GNSO RDS PDP
>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Legal Opinion on GDPR - Part 1
>>  
>> Full Blog post is at
>> https://www.icann.org/news/blog/data-protection-and-privacy-update[ic
>> ann.org].  Alan
>>  
>> At 19/10/2017 12:23 AM, Alan Greenberg wrote:
>> Perhaps it has already been posted, but if not, ICANN has received 
>> the first part of the independent legal analysis of the GDPR in 
>> relation to WHOIS that had been commissioned.
>>  
>> It can be found at
>> https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/gdpr-memorandum-part1-16o
>> ct[icann.org]
>> 17-e
>> n.pdf.
>>  
>> Alan
>>  
>> _______________________________________________
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>> --
>> Jonathan Matkowsky
>> --
>> Jonathan Matkowsky
>> 
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>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Kris Seeburn
>> seeburn.k at gmail.com
>> www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/[linkedin.com]
>> 
>> 
>>  
>>  
>> 
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>> 
>> --
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>>  
>> Mit freundlichen Gren,
>>  
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>>  
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>>  
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>>  
>> Mit freundlichen Gren,
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>> Key-Systems GmbH
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>> Best regards,
>>  
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>> - legal department -
>>  
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
>>  
>> Web: www.key-systems.net[key-systems.net] / 
>> www.RRPproxy.net[RRPproxy.net] 
>> www.domaindiscount24.com[domaindiscount24.com] / 
>> www.BrandShelter.com[BrandShelter.com]
>>  
>> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay
updated:
>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems[facebook.com]
>> www.twitter.com/key_systems[twitter.com]
>>  
>> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
>> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>>  
>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>> www.keydrive.lu[keydrive.lu]
>>  
>> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom
it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of
this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail.
If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly
notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> --
>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfgung.
>>  
>> Mit freundlichen Gren,
>>  
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>  
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
>>  
>> Web: www.key-systems.net[key-systems.net] / 
>> www.RRPproxy.net[RRPproxy.net] 
>> www.domaindiscount24.com[domaindiscount24.com] / 
>> www.BrandShelter.com[BrandShelter.com]
>>  
>> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems[facebook.com]
>> www.twitter.com/key_systems[twitter.com]
>>  
>> Geschftsfhrer: Alexander Siffrin
>> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: 
>> DE211006534
>>  
>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>> www.keydrive.lu[keydrive.lu]
>>  
>> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur fr den angegebenen
Empfnger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Verffentlichung oder
Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfnger ist unzulssig. Sollte diese
Nachricht nicht fr Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per
E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
>>  
>> --------------------------------------------
>>  
>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.
>>  
>> Best regards,
>>  
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - legal department -
>>  
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
>>  
>> Web: www.key-systems.net[key-systems.net] / 
>> www.RRPproxy.net[RRPproxy.net] 
>> www.domaindiscount24.com[domaindiscount24.com] / 
>> www.BrandShelter.com[BrandShelter.com]
>>  
>> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay
updated:
>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems[facebook.com]
>> www.twitter.com/key_systems[twitter.com]
>>  
>> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
>> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>>  
>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>> www.keydrive.lu[keydrive.lu]
>>  
>> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom
it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of
this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail.
If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly
notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
>>  
>>  
>>  
> _______________________________________________
> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg



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