[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] More mandatory reading in preparation for ICANN AD

Marika Konings marika.konings at icann.org
Fri Oct 27 12:10:20 UTC 2017


As a reminder, all materials in preparation for tomorrow’s meeting, including the drafting team templates received to date can be found here: https://community.icann.org/x/eyMhB.

Best regards,

Marika

From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Chuck Gomes <consult at cgomes.com>
Date: Friday, October 27, 2017 at 15:08
To: 'jonathan matkowsky' <jonathan.matkowsky at riskiq.net>, 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann at key-systems.net>, "gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] More mandatory reading in preparation for ICANN AD

All members:  EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, PLEASE RESTRICT ALL LIST CONVERSATIONS TO THE RDS PURPOSES DISCUSSION AND POSTPONE OTHER DISCUSSIONS AT THIS TIME.

Much of the interaction has been good but it has not focused on our current work.  For a WG our size and tasks as complex as RDS, if we do not narrow our focus to the subject at hand, it will be even more difficult for us to make progress than it already is.

RDS Purpose papers have been distributed from the teams we formed.  Please review those and submit any questions you have, remembering that our current objective is to make sure all members understand the purposes.  Also, we are not yet discussing the legitimacy of the proposed purposes, so avoid sharing your opinions in that regard until we open that topic.

Chuck

From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of jonathan matkowsky
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2017 3:50 AM
To: Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] More mandatory reading in preparation for ICANN AD

Hey Volker,

I hope you offer 2FA for your customers. It’s not necessarily as rare as you may think. And re-routing is not the only compromise possible. You should expect this may get worse with the rise in business email compromises etc.

I didn’t say that you were compromised. I am saying what I said.

Exercising diligence to appropriately investigate *is* actually on “you” as an accredited registrar. I’m not saying “you” weren’t cooperative either. In the end, all those not mitigating an incident to the extent it was in whole in part under their ownership, management, or control, may be accountable. If there’s a reseller(s), that adds another complicated layer(s) to the mix, and that chain of responsibility must be in the RDS. But if it turns out that proxy service is being used to shield the registrant from taking responsibility for a foreseeable misuse of the infrastructure that they can mitigate—either through their providers or directly, the proxy and/or registrar may be held accountable to the extent they facilitated or contributed to the damages caused by the uptime, together with the unnecessarily protracted incident and/or enforcement proceedings.

 I don’t want to lose focus on the points I raised below related to an extension of time until after Abu Dhabi before we start completing the purposes, or the link I included for feedback. I’m not trying to derail progress or get us sidetracked by this. I just gave an example of why I feel the way I do in answer to Chuck, based on what I was seeing at that moment.

Communication during an incident is critical. Closing down the communications or complacency is simply unacceptable.

Let’s please move on though. We can discuss these theories time permitting on both sides, in person next week.

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 2:09 AM Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:

Hi Jonathan,

regrding finding out whether our customer has been compromised or not: This usually is impossible for us to find out since we usually do not provide the hosting and that is what gets compromised. The cases where registrant accounts get compromised and the DNS re-routed are extremely rare. Finding compromised content and taking appropriate action is on hosters, not registrars.

Volker

Am 27.10.2017 um 10:10 schrieb jonathan matkowsky:
Hi, I said it’s failing to work. Not that it has failed. One example is I am seeing registrars insulating themselves from being accountable for expeditiously investigating abuse complaints on the basis they don’t have access to their own customer information as a proxy exists. The companies setting up those proxies don’t even know what’s in their own account. And the registrar has a difficult time discerning whether their own customer has been compromised or not. It’s malicious to set up proxy for the purpose of insulating oneself from being accountable to the public when you know full well your domain will be used to deliver content to thousands—some of whom foreseeably will use your infrastructure for criminal purposes. There appears to be lobbying that creates a system that has no accountability. I have some ideas how to solve this problem but that’s not for this group.

 I suppose if RDS can be developed with access to verified data needed in a timely manner with no rate limiting issues, the system may actually work to solve some of these accountability issues that exist.

More specifically, see http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/2017-October/004728.html though, as I think this is a breakdown too. Maybe I just missed the answer though on where leadership came out on this? I have been waiting to know.

I also welcomed the memo from COE. It’s important feedback to have as part of the big picture. It was helpful. There’s a lot to do.

But we can’t just rush in a week or two to try and finalize the purposes when all the limitations will flow from those purpose statements!  We need some time to cross-reference the data elements from the relevant  RFC with each purpose. So I feel we are being rushed when it comes to the substantive work we need to do here now that we have finally started getting the guidance. That’s a problem.

I am going through the exercise but won’t be done until after Abu Dhabi. Can we please adjust the schedule to permit for a bit more time? Especially if we are to review the other groups work as well?

Hope to see you in person.

Cheers,
Jonathan



On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 4:38 PM <consult at cgomes.com<mailto:consult at cgomes.com>> wrote:
Jonathan,

I am curious what criteria you used to determine that the multi-stakeholder process doesn’t work.

Chuck

From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>] On Behalf Of jonathan matkowsky
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 4:03 PM
To: Theo Geurts <gtheo at xs4all.nl<mailto:gtheo at xs4all.nl>>
Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] More mandatory reading in preparation for ICANN AD

Hi, everyone - I am not getting into Abu Dhabi until Monday. It's very sad to see the open Internet breaking down as a result of the multistakeholder process failing to work.  We will end up needing a lot more blocking and at a much higher level than before, so that interstate commerce doesn't collapse into the dark Web.

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 12:28 PM, Theo Geurts <gtheo at xs4all.nl<mailto:gtheo at xs4all.nl>> wrote:
And I am not the person who can change things here.

Again
We need to balance privacy and abuse.

Build cases not statements.

Theo
On 26-10-2017 19:25, John Bambenek wrote:
I am not shooting anyone. Just making my point.
--
John Bambenek

On Oct 26, 2017, at 19:24, Theo <gtheo at xs4all.nl<mailto:gtheo at xs4all.nl>> wrote:
Mark my words John,

Don't shoot the messenger here.

Theo

Verzonden vanaf mijn Windows 10-telefoon

Van: John Bambenek<mailto:jcb at bambenekconsulting.com>
Verzonden: donderdag 26 oktober 2017 19:06
Aan: Theo Geurts<mailto:gtheo at xs4all.nl>
CC: Volker Greimann<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Onderwerp: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] More mandatory reading in preparation for ICANN AD

That is not impossible. I disagree there are 25 checkboxes any more than there will be 25 checkboxes needed to post a tweet.

The checkbox is “this information will be in a public database and accessible world-wide so others can verify domain ownership and contact you. If you don’t like this, click private registration now.”

There is no need to overcomplicate a simple issue.

--
John Bambenek

> On Oct 26, 2017, at 18:51, Theo Geurts <gtheo at xs4all.nl<mailto:gtheo at xs4all.nl>> wrote:
>
> John,
>
> Let's see.
> Escrow requirements Registry/Registrar.
> Country depended/Company depended and security level depended.
> Data retention spec (tons of data gathered there)
> ICANN, running several WHOIS programs in conjunction with third-party vendors by GAC marching orders.
> WHOIS data being processed by unknown third parties given its current public access.
> Over a 1000 TLDs scattered over all over the globe.
>
> A simple gTLD registration will require a registrant to click at least 25 checkboxes to consent too.
> This is a conservative prediction and not meant to tick off WG members.
>
> Theo Geurts
>
>
>> On 26-10-2017 18:34, John Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg wrote:
>> Exactly how does this document say that consent is practically impossible when my reading of it provides guidance of how such consent could be achieved?
>>
>> As far as private by default, SHOULD is not MUST. The document doesn’t say that’s a hard requirement.
>>
>> --
>> John Bambenek
>>
>>> On Oct 26, 2017, at 16:01, Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> The Council of Europe has just published a guide on privacy and data protection principles specifically for ICANN related data processing.
>>>
>>> TL;DR:
>>>
>>> 1) Data controller needs to define twofold purposes for processing; a) related to policy; b) for contracted parties and their agreements with data subjects.
>>>
>>> 2) Data controller is fully liable for all data processing performed in accordance with purpose statement in compliance with all applicable laws.
>>>
>>> 3) Data processed for purposes not included in purpose statement is unlawful.
>>>
>>> 4) Data processing must be limited by guiding principles of necessity, proportionality and purpose limitation
>>>
>>> 5) Data processing based on consent is practically impossible in ICANN context.
>>>
>>> 6) Personal data must not be stored for longer than absolutely necessary for the legitimate purpose pursued.
>>>
>>> 7) ICANN needs formal data transfer policy for trans-border transfers.
>>>
>>> 8) Privacy by design and default as basis for all processing considerations.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>>
>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>>
>>> Volker A. Greimann
>>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>>
>>> Key-Systems GmbH
>>> Im Oberen Werk 1[maps.google.com]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__maps.google.com_-3Fq-3DIm-2BOberen-2BWerk-2B1-2B-253E-253E-253E-2B66386-2BSt.-2BIngbert-26entry-3Dgmail-26source-3Dg&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=BJhPIXrJQb9Xg4-fmx5B7rpar-Bcs4K9tSb4SuozRTQ&s=YmNCyxObR-k3y6MczgwDk1Fz1FqAb43cI2cy9D5dk3s&e=>
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>>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396<tel:+49%206894%209396> 851
>>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>>>
>>> Web: www.key-systems.net[key-systems.net]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.key-2Dsystems.net&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=BJhPIXrJQb9Xg4-fmx5B7rpar-Bcs4K9tSb4SuozRTQ&s=Uib2rAu3Z2HCZkJcVIzfgqIBBGDPzFbpuFx9if4PMSQ&e=> / www.RRPproxy.net[RRPproxy.net]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.RRPproxy.net&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=BJhPIXrJQb9Xg4-fmx5B7rpar-Bcs4K9tSb4SuozRTQ&s=fRpu-YiDBaoUr3ofU7HIMXWg0UWz0AcpHui7Zo9wF8E&e=>
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>>>
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>>> www.twitter.com/key_systems[twitter.com]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.twitter.com_key-5Fsystems&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=BJhPIXrJQb9Xg4-fmx5B7rpar-Bcs4K9tSb4SuozRTQ&s=dcyyja023fQ4fGfiXolBl4YYbyaflR9qY6eVc7z0z8g&e=>
>>>
>>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
>>> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
>>> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
>>>
>>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>>> www.keydrive.lu[keydrive.lu]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.keydrive.lu&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=BJhPIXrJQb9Xg4-fmx5B7rpar-Bcs4K9tSb4SuozRTQ&s=hhgtTpDr4ZcS_L0n9dEz7jI0Bfs2U8vp9mT73QKPiA8&e=>
>>>
>>> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Volker A. Greimann
>>> - legal department -
>>>
>>> Key-Systems GmbH
>>> Im Oberen Werk 1[maps.google.com]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__maps.google.com_-3Fq-3DIm-2BOberen-2BWerk-2B1-2B-253E-253E-253E-2B66386-2BSt.-2BIngbert-26entry-3Dgmail-26source-3Dg&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=BJhPIXrJQb9Xg4-fmx5B7rpar-Bcs4K9tSb4SuozRTQ&s=YmNCyxObR-k3y6MczgwDk1Fz1FqAb43cI2cy9D5dk3s&e=>
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>>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396<tel:+49%206894%209396> 901
>>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396<tel:+49%206894%209396> 851
>>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>>>
>>> Web: www.key-systems.net[key-systems.net]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.key-2Dsystems.net&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=BJhPIXrJQb9Xg4-fmx5B7rpar-Bcs4K9tSb4SuozRTQ&s=Uib2rAu3Z2HCZkJcVIzfgqIBBGDPzFbpuFx9if4PMSQ&e=> / www.RRPproxy.net[RRPproxy.net]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.RRPproxy.net&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=BJhPIXrJQb9Xg4-fmx5B7rpar-Bcs4K9tSb4SuozRTQ&s=fRpu-YiDBaoUr3ofU7HIMXWg0UWz0AcpHui7Zo9wF8E&e=>
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>>>
>>> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
>>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems[facebook.com]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.facebook.com_KeySystems&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=BJhPIXrJQb9Xg4-fmx5B7rpar-Bcs4K9tSb4SuozRTQ&s=5aXsgRzOqCiWvlQJDaBGqac_PrJ5E47evj5ae7h7tho&e=>
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>>>
>>> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
>>> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
>>> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>>>
>>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>>> www.keydrive.lu[keydrive.lu]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.keydrive.lu&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=BJhPIXrJQb9Xg4-fmx5B7rpar-Bcs4K9tSb4SuozRTQ&s=hhgtTpDr4ZcS_L0n9dEz7jI0Bfs2U8vp9mT73QKPiA8&e=>
>>>
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>>>
>>> <ICANN_privacy_guide_COE.pdf>
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Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.



Mit freundlichen Grüßen,



Volker A. Greimann

- Rechtsabteilung -



Key-Systems GmbH

Im Oberen Werk 1

66386 St. Ingbert

Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901

Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851

Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>



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Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:

www.facebook.com/KeySystems[facebook.com]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.facebook.com_KeySystems&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=BJhPIXrJQb9Xg4-fmx5B7rpar-Bcs4K9tSb4SuozRTQ&s=5aXsgRzOqCiWvlQJDaBGqac_PrJ5E47evj5ae7h7tho&e=>

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Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin

Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken

Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534



Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP

www.keydrive.lu[keydrive.lu]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.keydrive.lu&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=BJhPIXrJQb9Xg4-fmx5B7rpar-Bcs4K9tSb4SuozRTQ&s=hhgtTpDr4ZcS_L0n9dEz7jI0Bfs2U8vp9mT73QKPiA8&e=>



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--------------------------------------------



Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.



Best regards,



Volker A. Greimann

- legal department -



Key-Systems GmbH

Im Oberen Werk 1

66386 St. Ingbert

Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901

Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851

Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>



Web: www.key-systems.net[key-systems.net]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.key-2Dsystems.net&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=BJhPIXrJQb9Xg4-fmx5B7rpar-Bcs4K9tSb4SuozRTQ&s=Uib2rAu3Z2HCZkJcVIzfgqIBBGDPzFbpuFx9if4PMSQ&e=> / www.RRPproxy.net[RRPproxy.net]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.RRPproxy.net&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=BJhPIXrJQb9Xg4-fmx5B7rpar-Bcs4K9tSb4SuozRTQ&s=fRpu-YiDBaoUr3ofU7HIMXWg0UWz0AcpHui7Zo9wF8E&e=>

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Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:

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CEO: Alexander Siffrin

Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken

V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534



Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP

www.keydrive.lu[keydrive.lu]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.keydrive.lu&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=7_PQAir-9nJQ2uB2cWiTDDDo5Hfy5HL9rSTe65iXLVM&m=BJhPIXrJQb9Xg4-fmx5B7rpar-Bcs4K9tSb4SuozRTQ&s=hhgtTpDr4ZcS_L0n9dEz7jI0Bfs2U8vp9mT73QKPiA8&e=>



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