[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Facebook loses Belgian court case over consent and tracking
John Bambenek
jcb at bambenekconsulting.com
Tue Feb 20 17:53:22 UTC 2018
Actually this is wrong. There are use cases for registering domains that don’t resolve at all. Especially for brand protection. There are use cases for domains that don’t UNIVERSALLY resolve.
But you point out what we all know. Registrars are just going to shut down RDS/whois and its unclear why we bother with this discussion when we you’ve already states your endgame.
--
John Bambenek
> On Feb 20, 2018, at 11:41, Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net> wrote:
>
> Thank you for your helpful, concise but erroneous contribution.
>
> The difference between whois details and DNS entries, name servers, etc is that the latter are actually technically necessary to provide the service, so comparing the two is like comparing apples to elephants. Not even in the same classification of life.
>
> Volker
>
>> On 20. Feb 2018, at 18:35, allison nixon <elsakoo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> wrong
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net> wrote:
>>> Actually, we can. No whois, no risk of prosecution for unlawful processing in form of publication.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 20. Feb 2018, at 17:47, allison nixon <elsakoo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 1,000,000% agreed. Registrars cannot eliminate all their risk by masking WHOIS into oblivion. The DPAs can still ask why they are exposing A records, nameservers, etc, to anyone who asks for them, without valid reasons or authentication. Why do they expose zone files, etc. The DPAs can ask why customer support can sometimes so easily be social engineered into handing over accounts to account takeover scammers.
>>>>
>>>> Since most registrars are also hosting providers/mail providers, would criminals storing stolen PII on your servers be a GDPR issue? After all, the ultimate owner of the server is also considered a "processor", which has interesting implications if one's customers include phishers, or sell stolen credit cards, and one's already been notified. I have even seen miscreants putting doxes in TXT records.
>>>>
>>>> I already know of quite a few incidents where people would have had standing to file a GDPR complaint against registrars/hosters, unrelated to WHOIS.
>>>>
>>>> Eventually the issue is going to impact the core business model of registrars. This isn't going to stop at WHOIS. An open dialog with the DPAs at an early stage is of utmost importance for all parties involved here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:16 AM, Sam Lanfranco <sam at lanfranco.net> wrote:
>>>>> Benny,
>>>>>
>>>>> This is why I support multi-venue multi-stakholder dialogue with the DPA's so that they are appraised of the issues on all sides of the data protection issue. They are then more likely to act in a judicious manner, and less like an attack dog. Watch the new movie "The Post" where when Washington Post owner Katharine Graham decided to publish the Vietnam War Pentagon Papers, with the downside risk that she could be jailed for treason. The court ruled in favor of freedom of the press. It is not what the DPA can do, but what they are likely to do, and dialogue goes a long way to mitigating risk and shaping appropriate positions and behavior (with integrity) on all sides.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sam L.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/19/2018 10:02 AM, benny at nordreg.se wrote:
>>>>>> <ironi on> Now I am relieved, we as registrars will not be subject for anything… </ironi off>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> None of us know where and what they will prioritise, remember that it only take 1 complaint to a DPA to get the snowball moving. [emphasis added] I am sure your statement have noe value then.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards / Med vennlig hilsen
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Benny Samuelsen
>>>>>> Registry Manager - Domainexpert
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar
>>>>>> IANA-ID: 638
>>>>>> Phone: +46.42197000
>>>>>> Direct: +47.32260201
>>>>>> Mobile: +47.40410200
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 19 Feb 2018, at 15:29, Sam Lanfranco <sam at lanfranco.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Tim,
>>>>>>> No, completely to the contrary. My point with that dollars reference was that in some cases litigation is the preferred business response, rather than compliance and paying fines. Also, the big revenues in mining big data are outside the DNS sphere, and outside the abuses and "bad things" that websites do to people. The big EU fines are more likely to hit social media than Registrars, although they are risks there as well. The revenues, and privacy violations, will come from profiling users by mining big data for scraps of personal date to individualize target marketing.
>>>>>>> As a brief aside: This goes well beyond the remit of ICANN and is actually worse than just being inundated by adverts base on personal online behavior. Artificial Intelligence mining apps are increasingly customizing the "news" one gets from news feeds, to help "glue the eyeballs" to the adverts, creating a news silo of one. (That is amusing for me since I virtually live in two towns in two countries). Even more worrisome is the growing practice for A.I. companies where A.I. "writes" the news releases, now mainly in sports and finance, for thousands of print and online news outlets. I know all of this is outside the ICANN remit so I will stop there.
>>>>>>> Sam L.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/18/2018 5:43 PM, Chen, Tim wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Sam,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When you say these are hundred million dollar issues for "the companies",which companies are you talking about? Large Registrars?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I hope you are not comparing cybersecurity professionals and the good work they are trying to enable, to a completely separate privacy issue around data used for ad tracking or behavior tracking across websites. If I spent my days trying to protect people on the internet from bad things, I would certainly not appreciate any allusion that I was engaged on the whois data issue 'for the money'.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------
>>>>> "It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured
>>>>> in an unjust state" -Confucius
>>>>> 邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Visiting Prof, Xi'an Jaiotong-Liverpool Univ, Suzhou, China
>>>>> Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar)
>>>>> Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3
>>>>> email: sam at lanfranco.net Skype: slanfranco
>>>>> blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com
>>>>> Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>>
>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>>
>>> Volker A. Greimann
>>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>>
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>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Volker A. Greimann
>>> - legal department -
>>>
>>> Key-Systems GmbH
>>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
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>>> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> _________________________________
>> Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.
>
> --
> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>
> Volker A. Greimann
> - Rechtsabteilung -
>
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
>
> Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
> www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
>
> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
> www.facebook.com/KeySystems
> www.twitter.com/key_systems
>
> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
>
> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
> www.keydrive.lu
>
> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Volker A. Greimann
> - legal department -
>
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
>
> Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
> www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
>
> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
> www.facebook.com/KeySystems
> www.twitter.com/key_systems
>
> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>
> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
> www.keydrive.lu
>
> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
>
> _______________________________________________
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