[gnso-rpm-wg] Recordings, Attendance, AC Chat for Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) PDP Working Group call on Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:00 UTC

Wed Oct 11 19:44:19 UTC 2017

Dear All,

Please find the attendance of the call attached to this email. The MP3,
Adobe Connect recording and Adobe Connect chat below for the Review of all
Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) PDP Working Group call held Wednesday,
11 October 2017at 17:00 UTC. Attendance of the call is posted on agenda wiki
page:  https://community.icann.org/x/7IpEB

MP3: https://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-rpm-review-11oct17-en.mp3

Adobe Connect recording:
<https://participate.icann.org/p4yarjh9sq0/?OWASP_CSRFTOKEN=e7a3e0ad59e75812
eb19f72c46929374e3ff7948a26ef4dfdf6de2363e5902f4>
https://participate.icann.org/p4yarjh9sq0/

The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master
Calendar page:http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar

** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **

Mailing list archives:  <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/>
http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/

Main wiki page for the working group:
<https://community.icann.org/x/wCWAAw> https://community.icann.org/x/wCWAAw

Thank you.

Kind regards,

Terri 

Adobe Connect chat transcript for 11 October 2017:

    Terri Agnew:Welcome to the Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms
(RPMs) in all gTLDs PDP Working Group on Wednesday, 11 October 2017 at 17:00
UTC for 90 minute duration.

  Terri Agnew:agneda wiki page:
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_
7IpEB&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCI
gmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=EQX2oP_h3dneSn5OhOUbr2L2gIRoGfHS_URDf2n8iWU
&s=RtXnZB1mnV_CG37AgoFMSzu4maUqP_W22OP-mMRhGDM&e>
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_7
IpEB&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIg
mkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=EQX2oP_h3dneSn5OhOUbr2L2gIRoGfHS_URDf2n8iWU&
s=RtXnZB1mnV_CG37AgoFMSzu4maUqP_W22OP-mMRhGDM&e=

  George Kirikos:Hi folks.

  Cyntia King:Hello, George!

  Poncelet Ileleji:Hello All

  George Kirikos:Hi Cyntia and Poncelet.

  Poncelet Ileleji:Hello George

  J. Scott Evans:Good morning, Good Afternoon, Good Evening all.

  Marie Pattullo:Bon soir!

  Cyntia King:Hey, J Scott!

  Philip Corwin:Welcome RPMers!

  Michael R Graham:Morning

  Ariel Liang:Hello everyone! 

  Julie Hedlund:Hello everyone and glad to help!

  Scott Austin:Good afternoon.

  Cyntia King:Welcome Ariel & Julie!  Hello Mary & Teri!

  Lori Schulman:Hi guys

  Lori Schulman:Can't wait to hear what I will voluntell for this week.  :)

  George Kirikos:Doc is at:
<http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/attachments/20171010/fc173bd9/Sta
ffcompilationreport-Sunrisedata-3Oct2017-0001.pdf>
http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/attachments/20171010/fc173bd9/Staf
fcompilationreport-Sunrisedata-3Oct2017-0001.pdf if folks want to load it in
a separate window.

  Kurt Pritz:Thank you George

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello All

  Terri Agnew:all can scroll themselves

  Mary Wong:Yes

  David McAuley:yes

  J. Scott Evans:yes

  Maxim Alzoba  (FAITID ):notebook keeps reloading , trying a smartphone

  Mary Wong:As Berry is saying, we are using the word "generic" in the IANA
sense, not as the word may be viewed in trademark law parlance.

  George Kirikos:(would be nice to add page numbers to a future PDF, in one
of the corners)

  Mary Wong:Thanks, George, we will note this

  Mary Wong:We have added links to the definitiional documents for what is a
Start Date and End Date Sunrise.

  Maxim Alzoba  (FAITID ):one of the versions - auctions and the other -
first comes first served

  Maxim Alzoba  (FAITID ):m name collisions was another story

  Mary Wong:We don't have the information available to know why some gTLDs
don't have launch date information (as Berry said); note that Chart 1 listed
them by date of delegation into the root zone.

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):start date sunrsies = first comes first served, end
date has auction as a method of resolution for situation, where two or more
registrants wanted the same name

  George Kirikos:Some might have been cancelled, e.g. .doosan (which ICANN
is using in its EBERO test).

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Spec13 sunrise info has no meaning, so I support
Susan to excude this info

  Jonathan Frost (.CLUB):Agree

  J. Scott Evans:I agree with Susan.

  Susan Payne:thanks Berry

  Griffin Barnett:Spec 13 TLDs don;t need to run any Sunrise, so I agree -
no reason to include

  Kathy Kleiman:@Barry, is the end date sunrise largely one registry owner?

  George Kirikos:.chloe was just cancelled recently, too, among others.

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Kathy, end date for those who needed auctions
instead of fast customers

  George
Kirikos:https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__domainincite.com
_21767-2Drichemont-2Dkills-2Doff-2Dtwo-2Dmore-2Ddot-2Dbrands&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1
u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn
-H4xR2EBk&m=EQX2oP_h3dneSn5OhOUbr2L2gIRoGfHS_URDf2n8iWU&s=Uz8hAX0J_OLPOErEdo
gp0uA45cep3W_28CtTwjkqVa4&e= (.chloe and .montblanc terminations)

  Jonathan Frost (.CLUB):From a registry perspective, the reason to use an
end date is to provide an allocation mechanism when more than one rights
holder attempts to register the domain.

  Jonathan Frost (.CLUB):Rather than a race to register

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):end date sunrise and two TM owners in TMCH ...
highest bidder wins , and in start-dte -fstest one 

  George Kirikos:One would want to cross-reference this with the numbers
from THe Analysis Group, e.g. perhaps one type leads to more sunrise
registrations than the other, all else being equal.

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):in both 60 days is the requirement for the period
(30+30 or 60)

  Susan Payne:@George, the AG data is fairly old because of the time at
which they did their work.  so I think it would be difficult to do the
cross-ref you suggest wouldn't it?

  Jon Nevett:all

  George Kirikos:@Susan: right, one would need to update it using the ICANN
monthly reports.

  George Kirikos:(i.e. the monthly registry reports)

  Kathy Kleiman:Tx Barry

  Mary Wong:Registry operators had the discretion to decide which type of
Sunrise to do. The End Date Sunrise is a mechanism that is more familiar to
many, so while we do not have the data as to why registry operators chose
one over the other, that may be another reason.

  Susan Payne:@Kathy, Donuts don't have 385 registries so plenty of other
registries would also have done end date

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):only registries might answer questions about why
start-date vs. end-date. other parties do not have info

  Kathy Kleiman:@Jon Nevett - rather than talking around you, can we ask how
many Sunrises had End Date Sunrises?

  Kathy Kleiman:All interesting!

  George Kirikos:Do we know how many TMCH strings have multiple owners? (ie,
that's where it would make a difference, if there were multiple potential
sunrise registrants)

  Mary Wong:@Maxim, yes, exactly. We don't have the information to do more
than suggest a number of reasons at the moment.

  Jon Nevett:we launched 195 I think

  George Kirikos:If each TMCH string had only 1 registrant, it wouldn't make
a difference.

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):It was business decision of a registry - not
anything esle

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@George it would lead to TMCH auctions:)

  George Kirikos:@Maxim: right, presumably fanciful marks like "Google",
"Exxon" or "Verizon" wouldn't face that issue, though.

  Kathy Kleiman:@Jon: tx1

  George Kirikos:@Jon: with the Rightside acquisition, "we" is a little bit
larger now. :-)

  George Kirikos:238 for Donots (with Rightside) according to:
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ntldstats.com_registry
_group&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpC
IgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=EQX2oP_h3dneSn5OhOUbr2L2gIRoGfHS_URDf2n8iW
U&s=g-BMcy2s8f1aLvbhe5353hfIAYzDfr1r0bj7lkFQMv4&e>
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ntldstats.com_registry_
group&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCI
gmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=EQX2oP_h3dneSn5OhOUbr2L2gIRoGfHS_URDf2n8iWU
&s=g-BMcy2s8f1aLvbhe5353hfIAYzDfr1r0bj7lkFQMv4&e=

  Jon Nevett:@ george donuts didn't launch the RS names

  George Kirikos:@Jon: right, but now Donuts is inclusive of Rightside, part
of the same group.

  George Kirikos:i.e. the "new Donuts" = "the old Donuts" + "Rightside"

  Jon Nevett:I'm aware George, but the question was how many sunrises we did

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Delay = Digital archery + TMCH+Name
collisons+Glitches ... 

  Kurt Pritz:Thanks Berry - When redesigning: Chart 5 might be better as a
scatter diagram - or identifying mean and median

  Berry Cobb:@Kurt - yes, good idea

  George Kirikos:I don't really think Amazon/Google's delays can be
explained away that way, e.g.
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ntldstats.com_registry
_Charleston-2DRoad-2DRegistry-2DInc&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS
6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=EQX2oP_h3dneS
n5OhOUbr2L2gIRoGfHS_URDf2n8iWU&s=8KuED27OqWpznzS8NThhdTgPTfx5hBuHfozzwKbXmYQ
&e>
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ntldstats.com_registry_
Charleston-2DRoad-2DRegistry-2DInc&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6
sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=EQX2oP_h3dneSn
5OhOUbr2L2gIRoGfHS_URDf2n8iWU&s=8KuED27OqWpznzS8NThhdTgPTfx5hBuHfozzwKbXmYQ&
e= (Google)

  George
Kirikos:https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ntldstats.com_r
egistry_group_Amazon-2DRegistry-2DServices-2DInc&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwl
l3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=
EQX2oP_h3dneSn5OhOUbr2L2gIRoGfHS_URDf2n8iWU&s=LLU9Xk0QU-wMV5FiUzaQLpFGvkNPp5
d-F2-i6OPrsaQ&e= (Amazon's strings)

  Susan Payne:@George, what's your point? of relevance to a review of the
RPMs

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):if we decide to have question about this chart - add
"was the delay intentional ?"

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):*chart 5

  Jonathan Frost (.CLUB):+1 to Maxim.  The Working Group is behind its
charter schedule.  I think we have a duty not to delay at this point.

  George Kirikos:Once those 100+ TLDs actually launch, the numbers might
change, perhaps markedly.

  Mary Wong:All, to the extent there is agreement to include a question
about "time to sunrise launch (from delegation date)" to the registry
operator survey, it will be really helpful to relate it to the specific
Charter question(s) the group is going to be discussing.

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):lots of .CORE GEO domains had almost year of waiting
due to ALP not working ... it was delivered to WG during the previous F2F by
Abril

  George Kirikos:@Susan: my point was that the data is still a work in
progress.

  George Kirikos:And so that could change the numbers.

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):.MADRID too

  Susan Payne:@George all data is a WIP where you have a moving marketplace

  Susan Payne:@Berry just to be clear my comment wasn't a criticism of your
work, which is really useful.  I just didn't want you to spend a great deal
of time drilling deeper if it doesn't really advance the consideration of
the RPM requirements

  Berry Cobb:@Susan - << wasn't taken that way.  I enjoy all feedback

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):also some delays were due to 120 days of name
collisions (minimal)

  George Kirikos:+1 Mary. It'll eventually have more columns to that
spreadsheet.

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):sorry, old hand

  George Kirikos:Number of registrars could be obtained from the ICANN
monthly reports.

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):number of registrars could be 0 to max number of
registrars in IANA

  George Kirikos:How did they delegate nic.shabaka ? :-)

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):there is no obligation to have a contract with the
third party

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@George - Registries have to delegate nic.TLD under
RA

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):with 9998 or 9999 as IANA ID number in WHOIS

  Griffin Barnett:ie self-allocation

  George Kirikos:@Maxim: right, just wondering if they did that without a
registrar to manage it through, or just put it directly into the root for
themselves.

  Susan Payne:to go to Claudio's point - the RA has been amended to address
this

  George Kirikos:Directly into the zone, rather.

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@George, Registry have right for this nic.TLD to put
themself, and the same for up to 100 names 

  Mary Wong:Thanks very much, Kurt, that is exactly it.

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):in Charter 6 - 60 day of end date is minimum
according to RPMs, and for start date - 30 days of notice in advance + 30
days mininum duration of sunrsie

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):+ not all days were allowed to have start/end
moments

  Susan Payne:I think it would be better to filter out the spec 13 for this
as they skew the numbers a little

  Griffin Barnett:agree

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):they usefull info would be for SPEC13 - was SPEC 13
executed before the sunrise or after

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):to understand how many decided to change their mind

  George Kirikos:Berry answered the question I was going to ask. :-)

  Griffin Barnett:are there any new gTLDs that executed Spec 13 after
launching as an open tld>

  Susan Payne:but Maxim if the registry allocated names to third parties
they wouldn't be eligible to adopt spec 13

  George Kirikos:Actually, new question (new hand).

  Susan Payne:so cannot have run an open sunrise

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):spec 13 was approved on 26mar2014,  and some TLDs
launched earlier

  Maxim Alzoba
(FAITID):https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__newgtlds.icann
.org_en_announcements-2Dand-2Dmedia_announcement-2D14apr14-2Den&d=DwICaQ&c=F
mY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0A
Ign-H4xR2EBk&m=EQX2oP_h3dneSn5OhOUbr2L2gIRoGfHS_URDf2n8iWU&s=nQzKlTiAPDXWiRV
z6Dw-KJc_SyUmK8iTpzMvyx9XoMw&e=

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Susan, they could have 0 registrars sunrise

David McAuley:Nice presentation Berry

  Griffin Barnett:@maxim, just bc spec 13 was approved after some new gTLDs
launched doesn't mean there were any that launched as open and later
executed Spec 13...

  Susan Payne:but then they didn't really run a sunrise Maxim

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):formally 0 registrars sunrise was elegible

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Registries had to have sunrise, not RRA executed

  Griffin Barnett:might be interesting to see some data on new gTLDs that
technically ran a sunrise but without any accredited registrars

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):also many registrars did not want to implement
sunrise in their SRS

  Berry Cobb:I was just trying to fit it on as few pages for viewing.

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):and executed RRA only after end of sunrise 

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):to avoid it

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):aand only after end of Claims (due to issues with
integration)

  Berry Cobb:@George:  Understood.  It is that way in the raw spreadsheet.

  Kathy Kleiman:Tx you, Barry, for all of your work, and this discussion of
these charts!

  George Kirikos:Thanks, Berry. Is the raw spreadsheet on the wiki?

  Berry Cobb:and as the WG wants to add more info from claims, etcs, other
data sources we can add to that.

  George Kirikos:(and the raw wiki will continue to have more columns, as we
get more data sources, presumably)

  George Kirikos:raw spreadsheet, rather

  Berry Cobb:@George: at this time, no it is not because it does contain
information that the WG should not be revealed.

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):that is why I refferenced to .zurich as not so good
example 

  Susan Payne:yes i think the graphs are helpful

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):charts and numbers were fine - simplified
understanding

  Scott Austin:very helpful

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):+1 Kurt

  Kurt Pritz:pretty much

  Poncelet Ileleji:The graphically data very helpful

  Terri Agnew:next meeting: Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms
(RPMs) in all gTLDs PDP Working Group is scheduled for Wednesday, 18 October
2017 at 17:00 UTC for 90 minutes.

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):the week after this week and after ICANN is going to
be lost due to transit 

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):*ICANN meeting

  Mary Wong:@Maxim, yes, as is customary.

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):deputy co-chairs?

  claudio:what are our WG goals to accomplish during icann60?

  George Kirikos:Bye folks.

  Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):bye all

  Griffin Barnett:thanks all, bye

  J. Scott Evans:thanks berry. thanks all.

  Greg Shatan:Bye all.

  David McAuley:Good bye all, thanks Berry

  Ariel Liang:thank you all 

  Susan Payne:thanks all.  thanks Berry

  Scott Austin:thanks all

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