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<body lang="EN-US" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Dear TPR WG members,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Please find below the brief notes and action items from today’s meeting. <b><i><o:p></o:p></i></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The next meeting will be on Tuesday, 04 April at 1600 UTC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-bottom:double windowtext 2.25pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in">
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Emily, Julie, Berry, and Caitlin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">ACTION ITEMS/HOMEWORK:   WG members should share any observations/feedback from ICANN76 on the WG email distribution list.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Notes:<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Transfer Policy Review - Meeting #84</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Proposed Agenda</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">28 March 2023</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">1. Roll Call & SOI updates<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">2. Welcome and Chair Updates<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level1 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Reminder -- The deadline for early input from SO/AC/SG/Cs on group 2 topics is Tuesday 4 April.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level1 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Project Plan – No open action items at this time.  Note that we are still anticipating to stick with TEAC/TDRP/transfer reversal for about
 2 more months.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">3. Continuation of Gap Analysis Discussion – Transfer Reversal (<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/docs.google.com/document/d/1Mq-Zu-fTdu4xrI1h1YPB1ITGRTxAp2gKzef7cTkgnNg/edit__;!!PtGJab4!5L1CI1Q2_XPoRZMt6ZPh2Vn-Ou_MuZ1SXfiWcXW9iti286B8Q6XmbDl2CVSyGq7EqTmxAdEebanHmCwleuFiHVuX-d5MR6jBRw$" title="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Mq-Zu-fTdu4xrI1h1YPB1ITGRTxAp2gKzef7cTkgnNg/edit__;!!PtGJab4!5L1CI1Q2_XPoRZMt6ZPh2Vn-Ou_MuZ1SXfiWcXW9iti286B8Q6XmbDl2CVSyGq7EqTmxAdEebanHmCwleuFiHVuX-d5MR6jBRw$">working
 document [docs.google.com]</a>)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Sarah Wyld: Comments about what an undo process could look like – a lighter weight process that is secure and appropriate:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level1 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Purpose – we need something that could resolve the problem, not just a communication channel (TEAC).<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level1 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Need the registrars to work together to resolve the problem:<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" start="1" type="1">
<ol style="margin-top:0in" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l10 level2 lfo17"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Direct resolution between registrars. <o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l10 level2 lfo17"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Notification by Losing to Gaining Rr of problem<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l10 level2 lfo17"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Gaining Rr returns NS to pre-transfer settings (provided by Losing Rr in step 1)<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l10 level2 lfo17"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Interaction to confirm that the transfer was invalid, maybe including evidence<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l10 level2 lfo17"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Requirement for Gaining Registrar to respond within specific time period, like TEAC, with Registry returning domain if no response<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l10 level2 lfo17"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">If both Rrs agree, Ry returns domain to Losing (pre-transfer) Registrar and reverses related fees <o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l10 level2 lfo17"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Optional escalation to third-party TDRP if not resolved here<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
</ol>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Discussion:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level1 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Need to suggest time period – what happens if not resolved and by when.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level1 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Suggestion to back up to purpose and use:<o:p></o:p></span>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="circle">
<li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Need something faster and less costly than TDRP.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Consider timelines.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Consider how this would specifically be used.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Is this a formalization of what registrars are already doing?  Could have a process that the domain owner even could invoke, and the point
 of contact could be the TEAC.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Concern if this procedure was used for non-emergencies – more than the TEAC is used – what would happen if this was disputed?  How could
 a new registrant (or losing registrant) participate?<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The registrants (losing and gaining) are both reliant on the registrar.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Concern that the registrant may not even be informed of the attempt to pull back the transfer.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">How do you get to the point of addressing the participation of gaining or losing registrants? 
<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Sounds like we need to keep the concept of the contact for emergencies separate.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Is it better for the registrant to not have a process?  Can the registrant participate in the TDRP (without the registrar)?  Need a non-emergency
 resolution process either way.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">There is a big difference between this process and the current procedure – that if the registrar doesn’t respond the registry returns
 the domain – and the registrant doesn’t have any way of knowing that the transfer has been reversed.  How to address notification?  Does that also include notification to the new registrant?<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Not sure why there is so much concern about returning the domain due to a non-response – doesn’t that already happen?<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Not a concern now since the procedure is seldom used – we assume this new procedure would be used much more frequently.  What happens
 if a legitimate transfer is reversed?  What is the registrant’s recourse to dispute the transfer reversal?<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The current TEAC system of a response in 4 hours is definitely gamed – need to make sure that any new reversal process can’t be gamed. 
 Also have to be careful that a RNH couldn’t inappropriately challenge a transfer.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">There are no express obligations for a registrar to advocate for a RNH.  There also are limitations on an RNH’s ability to sue in the
 case of an illegitimate transfer.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">For a procedures like this to work fairly it would need direct participation by the registrant – could need a registrant initiated transfer
 dispute mechanism.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">If in step #4, the registrar doesn’t respond does this go instead to a TDRP – would that be better? (Jumps to step #6)?<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">If the TDRP is automatically a next step, who would pay for it?<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Courts are where these types of disputes should take place.  Unless there is a clear meeting of the minds, the status quo should prevail.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">As a general principle if we are struggling to say what role the transfer policy is supposed to be then we should take the minimalist
 approach – just to resolve an egregious and obviously fraudulent transfer.  Leave the status quo as an informal process.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Should probably err on the side of the losing registrant.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">If the registrars don’t agree then they go to a TDRP.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">There are two equal perspectives – the former owner or the new owner.  This is not a new issue, but we need not resolve it.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Could we say this process can’t be used if money is changing hands?  If the transfer is due to an illegitimate transfer (a hijack, etc.)
 it would go through a different process?<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">If it is an agreed-upon resolution between registrars there’s no need for a new process – we can stay with the status quo.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level2 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Nice to formalize what is occurring today.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
</li></ul>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Other comments from Sarah:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Time Period: Maybe only within the 30-day lock period, and if outside that time it must be a TDRP? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Urgency: Any<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Potential Limitations Raised by WG Members: Liability concerns for both Registrars (can they be indemnified? I understand this is a significant hurdle for TDRP)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Discussion:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level1 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">30-day lock would be irrelevant as there is no pull back – if we were to codify the procedure it should be able to invoked at any time
 (no lock).<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level1 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Commencement of the process could occasion a lock.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level1 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The outcome for failure to respond shouldn’t be an automatic transfer – should go to step #6, TDRP.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level1 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Could be a transfer prohibited until the transfer dispute is resolved.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level1 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Is the TDRP the right escalation point?  The policy could be followed exactly but could still be an illegitimate transfer.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level1 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">WG could make a recommendation that there could be a registrant-initiated TDRP for fraudulently transferred domains.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoPlainText" style="mso-list:l13 level1 lfo13"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Isn’t returning the domain name to the losing registrar different from ServerTransferProhibited, which is a freeze until the dispute is
 resolved.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">4. AOB<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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