<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I was quite sure the purpose of this group was to improve and finalise processes - rather than affording a platform for a disgruntled litigant to ventilate their/their client’s issues?<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I also think there is a huge difference between ICANN bearing the costs of “maintaining the IRP mechanism” and ICANN bearing the costs of a party launching an IRP (that is not a Community IRP). At least that is my plain reading of the language. The alternative reading would require ICANN to maintain a deposit with the ICDR just in case a potential IRP arises. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If my learned friend wants to suggest any wriggling, I would recommend he proposes a change to the bylaws to revise the current language - which to my mind does not (on a plain reading) lead to the conclusions to which both my learned colleagues have leapt, with Olympic gold medal winning distances.<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 22 Jul 2021, at 01:31, Mike Rodenbaugh via IOT <<a href="mailto:iot@icann.org" class="">iot@icann.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Really. Perhaps ICANN wants to try to explain it to this group...<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I requested ICANN to pay that fee in the .hotel IRP, they refused. I asked the so-called Emergency Panelist to require ICANN to pay it, he refused (subject to review by the full IRP panel, just recently appointed). I will continue to ask....<br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div style="font-family:arial;font-size:small" class=""><span class=""><br class=""><div dir="ltr" style="margin-left:0pt" align="left" class=""><table style="border:none;border-collapse:collapse" class=""><colgroup class=""><col width="203" class=""><col width="86" class=""><col width="335" class=""></colgroup><tbody class=""><tr style="height:20.25pt" class=""><td rowspan="4" style="border-right:0.75pt solid rgb(0,133,61);vertical-align:middle;padding:5pt;overflow:hidden" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; text-align: center; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=""><span style="border:none;display:inline-block;overflow:hidden;width:159px;height:95px" class=""><img alt="Logo" src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/S_Oxvn9Vep0rF8IVyiOnDwA4LymtHrWirggIxlsU26JihhEYDv5A5D03ZY0k_npND2t8xfiWCdTM5NTO_LSZMksjO_UlJm5IAP3FEi5cw96AwIPgVzvoOfHIux_qNA26n5UuxvQZ" width="159" height="95" style="margin-left:0px;margin-top:0px" class=""></span></span></div></td><td colspan="2" style="border-left:0.75pt solid rgb(0,133,61);vertical-align:top;padding:5pt;overflow:hidden" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-left: 3.6pt; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,133,61);background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap" class="">Mike Rodenbaugh</span></div></td></tr><tr style="height:18pt" class=""><td style="vertical-align:top;padding:5pt;overflow:hidden" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-left: 3.6pt; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,133,61);background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap" class="">address:</span></div></td><td style="vertical-align:top;padding:5pt;overflow:hidden" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.53; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: Arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">548 Market Street, Box 55819</span></div><div style="line-height: 1.53; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: Arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">San Francisco, CA 94104</span></div></td></tr><tr style="height:12.75pt" class=""><td style="vertical-align:top;padding:5pt;overflow:hidden" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-left: 3.6pt; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,133,61);background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap" class="">email:</span></div></td><td style="vertical-align:top;padding:5pt;overflow:hidden" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.53; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: Arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=""><a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com" target="_blank" class="">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a></span></div></td></tr><tr style="height:24pt" class=""><td style="vertical-align:top;padding:5pt;overflow:hidden" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-left: 3.6pt; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,133,61);background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap" class="">phone:</span></div></td><td style="vertical-align:top;padding:5pt;overflow:hidden" class=""><div style="line-height: 1.53; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: Arial; background-color: transparent; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">+1 (415) 738-8087</span></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br class=""></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 21, 2021 at 2:46 AM Malcolm Hutty <<a href="mailto:Malcolm@linx.net" class="">Malcolm@linx.net</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<div class="gmail-m_644724127385448793WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">Really?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">From Section 4.3:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51);background:white" class="">(r) </span>ICANN<span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51);background:white" class=""> shall bear all the administrative
costs of maintaining the IRP mechanism, including compensation of Standing Panel members. Except as otherwise provided in Section 4.3(e)(ii), each party to an IRP proceeding shall bear its own legal expenses, except that </span>ICANN<span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51);background:white" class=""> shall
bear all costs associated with a Community IRP, including the costs of all legal counsel and technical experts. Nevertheless, except with respect to a Community IRP, the IRP Panel may shift and provide for the losing party to pay administrative costs and/or
fees of the prevailing party in the event it identifies the losing party's Claim or defense as frivolous or abusive.</span><span class=""><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">To me, that expresses a clear rule that the costs of the IRP itself are picked up by ICANN, that Claimants other than the EC pay the cost of their own professional advice and representation, and
ICANN also covers those costs for the EC.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">What is ICANN’s excuse for wriggling out of this?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p>
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<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" class=""> IOT <<a href="mailto:iot-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">iot-bounces@icann.org</a>>
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Mike Rodenbaugh via IOT<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> 20 July 2021 19:03<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> <a href="mailto:iot@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">iot@icann.org</a><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [IOT] Possible work remaining for IOT<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">As for other issues, I had posted an email re IRP Fees last Sept. Now the fee is $6,750 merely to initiate an IRP at the ICDR. I think that is an administrative fee that the Bylaws require ICANN to pay. But ICANN denies that, and forces
claimants to pay it. I think it should cost far less to file a challenge to an ICANN decision. Note that it costs just $400 to file a lawsuit in U.S. federal court.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Also, we should discuss when an RFR is 'summarily dismissed' by the BAMC, which has only happened very rarely in the past. But it appears very unclear how or when such a dismissal can or must be challenged. And so that is another scenario
that needs review by this group, imho.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif" class="">Thanks,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif" class="">Mike<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
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<b class=""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,133,61)" class="">Mike Rodenbaugh</span></b><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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<b class=""><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,133,61)" class="">address:</span></b><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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<td valign="top" style="padding:5pt;height:18pt;overflow:hidden" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">548 Market Street, Box 55819</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin: 0cm;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">San Francisco, CA 94104</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div>
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<b class=""><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,133,61)" class="">email:</span></b><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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<td valign="top" style="padding:5pt;height:12.75pt;overflow:hidden" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com" target="_blank" class="">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a></span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div>
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<b class=""><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,133,61)" class="">phone:</span></b><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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<td valign="top" style="padding:5pt;height:24pt;overflow:hidden" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">+1 (415) 738-8087</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 9:51 AM Susan Payne via IOT <<a href="mailto:iot@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">iot@icann.org</a>> wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Hi David
</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Thank you for your thoughtful email. I will respond in writing as a follow up, but hope we will be able
to also consider these suggestions on the upcoming call.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">For convenience, hopefully, I have made a very light-touch update to the short slide deck we have been
using to frame the discussion on tolling – to correct a few areas of ambiguity that came up on the last call, as promised. These are noted in red.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">The updated version is attached and we can review this on the call.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Speak to those who are able to make it shortly.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Susan</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Poppins SemiBold", serif;" class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Poppins SemiBold", serif;" class="">Susan Payne<br class="">
</span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Poppins Light",serif;color:rgb(149,7,52)" class="">Head of Legal Policy
</span><span style="font-size: 9pt;" class=""><br class="">
</span><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Poppins SemiBold", serif;" class="">Com Laude<br class="">
</span><b class=""><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Poppins Light",serif;color:rgb(149,7,52)" class="">T</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Poppins Light", serif;" class=""> +44 (0) 20 7421 8250<br class="">
</span><b class=""><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Poppins Light",serif;color:rgb(149,7,52)" class="">Ext</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Poppins Light", serif;" class=""> 255</span><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Poppins SemiBold", serif;" class=""><br class="">
</span><a href="https://comlaude.com/" target="_blank" class=""><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Poppins SemiBold",serif;text-decoration:none" class=""><span id="cid:17acb674a764cff312"><image001.png></span></span></a><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" class=""> IOT <<a href="mailto:iot-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">iot-bounces@icann.org</a>>
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>McAuley, David via IOT<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> 20 July 2021 12:20<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> <a href="mailto:iot@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">iot@icann.org</a><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> [IOT] Possible work remaining for IOT</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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</div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">Dear IOT colleagues,</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">Susan asked us to note any work items that we think remain to be done. In my personal opinion, these are possible tasks remaining beyond those mentioned by Susan
on the last call:</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="gmail-m_644724127385448793gmail-m1952810806114176382msolistparagraph" style="margin-left:38.25pt">
<span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="gmail-m_644724127385448793gmail-m1952810806114176382msolistparagraph" style="margin-left:38.25pt">
<u class=""></u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><u class=""></u><span lang="EN-US" class="">To develop a recall process relating to members of the standing panel – see Bylaw 4.3(j)(iii);</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="gmail-m_644724127385448793gmail-m1952810806114176382msolistparagraph" style="margin-left:38.25pt">
<span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="gmail-m_644724127385448793gmail-m1952810806114176382msolistparagraph" style="margin-left:38.25pt">
<u class=""></u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><u class=""></u><span lang="EN-US" class="">To consider the development of additional independence requirements for members of the standing panel, including
<span style="background-color: white;" class="">term limits and restrictions on post-term appointment to other </span>ICANN<span style="background-color: white;" class=""> positions – see Bylaw 4.3(q)(i)(B) on conflicts of interests of members of the standing panel;</span></span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="gmail-m_644724127385448793gmail-m1952810806114176382msolistparagraph"><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="gmail-m_644724127385448793gmail-m1952810806114176382msolistparagraph" style="margin-left:38.25pt">
<u class=""></u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><u class=""></u><span lang="EN-US" class="">Do we want to establish ‘limitations’ on appeals? – see Bylaw 4.3(w) which states:</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="gmail-m_644724127385448793gmail-m1952810806114176382msolistparagraph"><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="gmail-m_644724127385448793gmail-m1952810806114176382msolistparagraph" style="margin-left:74.25pt">
<u class=""></u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(31,73,125)" class=""><span class="">o<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><u class=""></u><b class=""><i class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Subject<span style="background:white" class=""> to any limitations established through the Rules of Procedure, an IRP Panel decision may be appealed to the full Standing Panel sitting en banc
within sixty (60) days of issuance of such decision.</span></span></i></b><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" class=""><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="gmail-m_644724127385448793gmail-m1952810806114176382msolistparagraph" style="margin-left:74.25pt">
<i class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span></i><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="gmail-m_644724127385448793gmail-m1952810806114176382msolistparagraph" style="margin-left:90pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Courier New"" class="">o</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" class="">
</span><span lang="EN-US" class="">One possible limitation which I think we may want to consider is whether non-binding IRPs (see Bylaw 4.3(x)(iv)) should be appealable.
</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="gmail-m_644724127385448793gmail-m1952810806114176382msolistparagraph" style="margin-left:51.75pt">
<span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="gmail-m_644724127385448793gmail-m1952810806114176382msolistparagraph" style="margin-left:90pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Courier New"" class="">o</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" class="">
</span><span lang="EN-US" class="">Additionally, in this respect, is it within our remit to consider whether non-binding IRPs should constitute precedent?
</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="gmail-m_644724127385448793gmail-m1952810806114176382msolistparagraph" style="margin-left:38.25pt">
<i class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span></i><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="gmail-m_644724127385448793gmail-m1952810806114176382msolistparagraph" style="margin-left:38.25pt">
<u class=""></u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><u class=""></u><span lang="EN-US" class="">Is there ambiguity regarding a standing panel’s ability to ‘adjudicate’ a stay of ICANN action or just to ‘recommend’ a stay? See Bylaws 4.3(o) and 4.3(p). If there is ambiguity, is there anything within our
remit to help clarify? </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="gmail-m_644724127385448793gmail-m1952810806114176382msolistparagraph" style="margin-left:38.25pt">
<i class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span></i><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="gmail-m_644724127385448793gmail-m1952810806114176382msolistparagraph" style="margin-left:38.25pt">
<u class=""></u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"" class="">
</span></span></span><u class=""></u><span lang="EN-US" class="">Finally, with respect to the Rule 4 (Time for Filing) issue that we are currently discussing, should we clarify that the rule we eventually develop is either an affirmative defense that ICANN can raise, or
not, as it sees fit or, alternatively, a firm matter of standing that the panel should invoke on its own without exemption, subject only to the savings language that Sam and Liz are working on?</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">Best regards,</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">David</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">David McAuley</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">Sr International Policy & Business Development Manager</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">Verisign Inc.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">703-948-4154</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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