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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">All:</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">Here are some thoughts. Apologies, but I don't have time to prepare a more detailed overview.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">I believe it is worth reminding the CCWG-Accountability Recommendation on accessibility and costs:</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><img width="697" height="150" style="width:7.2604in;height:1.5625in" id="Picture_x0020_3" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D90987.28EE6F90" alt="Text
Description automatically generated"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">With respect to the loser pays/fee shifting, I see no basis to distinguish between non-profits and for-profits.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">The way that cost the loser pays/fee shifting has been transposed into Articles 4(3)(e)(ii) and 4(3)(r) of the Bylaws seems unbalanced and in contradiction with the stated purposes of the IRP (Article
4(3)(a) of the Bylaws).</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">Article 4(3)(e)(ii) provides that, in certain circumstances (i.e., non good faith participation to CEP), the IRP Panel shall award to ICANN all reasonable fees and costs incurred by ICANN, including
legal fees. </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">There is no such provision for a reimbursement of all reasonable fees and costs incurred by a Claimant. Yet the IRP is a system to ensure ICANN’s compliance. As a result, ICANN is the main beneficiary
of IRP rulings. Without a balanced cost shifting model, the system risks to install unwarranted burdens for Claimants who risk paying the bill for enhancing ICANN’s accountability.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">Article 4(3)(r) <i>in fine</i> provides for possible fee shifting in the event of frivolous or abusive claims or defenses. To date, there is no cost shifting case law. That could be because the burden
of Article 4(3)(r) is too high. </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">In international arbitration, the principle of <i>costs follow the event</i> is well accepted (with fairness adjustments). The requirement of frivolous or abusive claims or defenses seems at odds with
this principle and with the stated purposes of an IRP. According to these stated purposes, IRPs are aimed at securing the “accessible, transparent, efficient, consistent, coherent, and just resolution of Disputes” and to lead to final resolutions “consistent
with international arbitration norms”. Deviating from the <i>costs follow the event </i>principle to ICANN’s benefit risks making IRPs less accessible, less just, and not consistent with international arbitration norms.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">In my experience, adherence to the <i>costs follow the event </i>principle has never incentivized a commercial entity to engage in imprudent management or in making intemperate legal expenses. Efficiency
as to time and costs is an important driver in international arbitration, which always forms part of the decision-making matrix. Even when an arbitral tribunal decides to shift costs, it will have no scruples about rejecting the reimbursement of excessive
or unnecessary legal costs.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">Instead of trying to re-invent the wheel, I would make a plea of confirming ourselves to well-established norms of international arbitration and adapting where necessary to serve the stated purposes
of an IRP. In my view, the stated purpose of making IRPs accessible favours adherence to the <i>costs follow the event </i>principle, provided Claimants are offered some protection in line with the stated purpose of IRPs to ensure ICANN’s accountability to
the global Internet community and Claimants.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I’ll try to join you in the call tonight.<br>
<br>
Best<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Flip<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Flip Petillion</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"><a href="mailto:fpetillion@petillion.law"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">fpetillion@petillion.law</span></a></span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">+32484652653</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"><a href="http://www.petillion.law"><span style="color:black;text-decoration:none">www.petillion.law</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.petillion.law/"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="191" height="43" style="width:1.9895in;height:.4479in" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image002.png@01D90987.28EE6F90" alt="id:image001.png@01D3691D.DA7539C0"></span></a><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="X-NONE" style="font-family:"Gill Sans MT Pro Light",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Gill Sans MT Pro Light",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Gill Sans MT Pro Light",sans-serif;color:black">Attorneys – Advocaten – Avocats</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">IOT <iot-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of "McAuley, David via IOT" <iot@icann.org><br>
<b>Reply to: </b>"McAuley, David" <dmcauley@Verisign.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, 6 December 2022 at 12:46<br>
<b>To: </b>"silber.mike@gmail.com" <silber.mike@gmail.com>, "Malcolm@linx.net" <Malcolm@linx.net><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"iot@icann.org" <iot@icann.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [IOT] IRP-IOT action items/next steps on Initiation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Thank you, Malcolm and Mike.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I agree with how Mike approaches these matters, subject to these further comments:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-add-space:auto;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo3">
<span lang="EN-US">Needy claimants should be able to bring IRPs and I encourage ICANN to pay special heed to Bylaw 4.3(y) regarding meaningful participation by those who might otherwise be excluded.
<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="2" type="1">
<li class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-add-space:auto;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo3">
<span lang="EN-US">I agree that costs and fees are best handled by the panel and Mike’s guardrails of fairness and equity seem right, as does note of having rules that conform with international arbitration norms.
<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="3" type="1">
<li class="MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-add-space:auto;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo3">
<span lang="EN-US">I am not convinced that non-commercial claimants should be able to capture all of their costs if they prevail unless ICANN was frivolous in its defense. Parties who are able typically shoulder their own costs and this helps ensure that the
costs incurred remain subject to prudent management. <o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Sorry I will not be able to attend today.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">David<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">David McAuley<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Policy Director<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Verisign, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Mike Silber <silber.mike@gmail.com>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 6, 2022 6:22 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Malcolm Hutty <Malcolm@linx.net><br>
<b>Cc:</b> McAuley, David <dmcauley@Verisign.com>; susan.payne@comlaude.com; iot@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [IOT] IRP-IOT action items/next steps on Initiation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p><strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#993300">Caution:</span></strong><span style="color:#993300"> </span><span style="color:black">This email originated from outside the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless
you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hi Malcom<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I think you make several excellent points below. At the same time I think you are ascribing certain intent to some of David’s statements that may be unwarranted. Rather than responding in-line [to avoid picking nits]
or speaking for David [as he can respond if he feels it is required] I will top post.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">My personal view [recognising that i have been observing in the background and may not be totally current]:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo8">
<span lang="EN-US">a party intending to use the IRP (“applicant”) should pay a filing fee. The filing fee should be a first gate to limit trivial or vexatious use of the process, but not so onerous to prevent use of the process. Deserving [needy] applicants
should be entitled to seek a waiver of the fee from the panel;<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo8">
<span lang="EN-US">a successful applicant should be entitled to have the filing fee refunded;<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo8">
<span lang="EN-US">the question of costs and fees is best dealt with by the panel having regard to fairness and equity with the IRP process giving some limited guidance which could be:<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<ul type="disc">
<ul type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level2 lfo8">
<span lang="EN-US">commercial applicants should pay their own costs [they will presumably get commercial benefit from a positive outcome] and only be entitled to a refund of those costs if ICANN’s opposition is frivolous or vexatious;<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level2 lfo8">
<span lang="EN-US">non-commercial applicants must apply to the panel for their costs to be met, which may be granted in whole or in part;<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level2 lfo8">
<span lang="EN-US">ICANN pays its own costs and is only able to claim back costs from an (i) unsuccessful;
<b>and</b> (ii) frivolous or vexatious applicant [an applicant who is unsuccessful but not frivolous or vexatious should nt be act risk of a claim for ICANN’s costs];<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level2 lfo8">
<span lang="EN-US">ICANN should pay all the panel / IRP process costs [except for the initial filing fee] and is only entitled to claim a refund of costs if a finding is made that the claim is frivolous or vexatious; and<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level2 lfo8">
<span lang="EN-US">a party’s costs include both internal, legal and administrative costs [courier, translation etc] and should follow the above process.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
</ul>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Mike<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On 5 Dec 2022, at 18:32, Malcolm Hutty via IOT <<a href="mailto:iot@icann.org">iot@icann.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">David wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:36.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Presumably, a prevailing party will make a claim for such costs or fees, the losing party will have an opportunity to challenge the claim, and we should trust the panel to make an appropriate ruling. I believe that here
too they should act consistent with international arbitration norms (see also Bylaw 4.3(a)(viii)).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I think this notion that a prevailing party will have to claim for costs and fees, while typical for litigation in a court of law, is a big part of what the IRP was intended to avoid.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">The idea was that ICANN would have an independent review process that claimants could access to resolve disputes. Nothing in the bylaws authorises ICANN (or its provider) to condition access this process on payment of
fees, just as there is no suggestion that you have to pay to file a Request for Reconsideration or to use the services of the Ombudsman.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Moreover, in David’s formulation, if a Claimant loses, then they’re not the prevailing party and would not be able to claim for costs and fees. This is quite different to the bylaws requirement that ICANN pays the costs
of the IRP, with them only being shifted when the claim was frivolous or vexatious.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">David asserts that the bylaws language requiring ICANN to pay the costs of the IRP mechanism only applies to some intangible costs that form a ‘mechanism’ that somehow exclude the actual operation of that mechanism. I
find that distinction artificial, a construct invented to support charging the Claimant, but without foundation in the bylaws.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">We should always look to the Bylaws themselves to understand what is required.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">David’s assertion that the ‘IRP mechanism’ and the process of hearing a dispute are distinct is actually contradicted directly by the bylaws themselves: Bylaw 4.3(r) states quite explicitly that the fees of the panellists
who hear the dispute are included in the definition of administrative costs. Yet these fees are incontrovertibly the cost of hearing one individual dispute. So any possible suggestion that the costs of hearing the dispute are outside the definition of “administrative
costs” is directly excluded by the clear language of 4.3(r).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">This notion of an IRP mechanism as being something other than the process of hearing disputes arises only because we keep using shorthand: we talk of “the IRP” and forget what the IRP actuall is. We need to look back
to the bylaws definition of the IRP to see what the “IRP” really means.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Bylaws Article 4.3 (a) begins as follows:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#333333;background:white">“ In addition to the reconsideration process described in <u>Section 4.2</u>, </span><span lang="EN-US">ICANN</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#333333;background:white"> shall
have a separate process for independent third-party review of Disputes (defined in <u>Section 4.3(b)(iii)</u>) alleged by a Claimant (as defined in <u>Section 4.3(b)(i)</u>) to be within the scope of the Independent Review Process ("<strong><span style="font-family:Helvetica">IRP</span></strong>").
The IRP is intended to hear and resolve Disputes for the following purposes ("<strong><span style="font-family:Helvetica">Purposes of the IRP</span></strong>"): […]”</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">This is where IRP is defined: it is a defined term. It refers to “a separate process for independent third-party review of Disputes”. Accordingly when 4.3(r) speaks of ICANN paying for the ‘IRP mechanism’, it is referring
to “the process for independent third-party review of Disputes”. The mechanism *<b>is</b>* the process: there is nothing else.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Bylaw 4.3(r) requires ICANN to pay for the process of those Disputes being reviewed. That is what ‘IRP mechanism’ means. Which is entirely consistent with everything else that is said in the Bylaws, including the Purposes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Kind Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Malcolm.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">--<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#7030A0"> Malcolm Hutty | Executive Director, Legal and Policy</span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">T: +44 7789 987 023 |<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://secure-web.cisco.com/1gXx9xbCru0oZFI-I6cKHfFRzZEJ-IRIPzx0q-EjM2gMoAdTyFo_FX-O6lwVvRquI9YLJrCdQnSszD5STY3x1BoGInoPNWMOLYZJzOUfglxuuDMmUe2qejkTskCGtyUNyozbxhdc3itm1saMNr9-wXhcN4fjFKWSGBJpvyIe9wrsADkmLcpPC35AiYV1lMaKBYAgH0yxoA2W7hZ9ppxPDLvcOViSKGwUq6AQNxcSlf9EjZpWPBZbhLcig2JXbKWNZDIcgxRxCsEnrINITeiHSI3qRZdBFC8UgD9reu76GKaU/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linx.net%2F"><span style="color:#0563C1">www.linx.net</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><image006.png><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#7030A0">London Internet Exchange Ltd (LINX)</span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">c/o WeWork, 2 Minster Court, Mincing Lane London EC3R 7BB<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Registered in England No. 3137929 at Trinity Court, Trinity Street, Peterborough PE1 1DA<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US">IOT <<a href="mailto:iot-bounces@icann.org"><span style="color:#0563C1">iot-bounces@icann.org</span></a>><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>McAuley, David via IOT<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>05 December 2022 13:28<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:susan.payne@comlaude.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">susan.payne@comlaude.com</span></a>;<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:iot@icann.org"><span style="color:#0563C1">iot@icann.org</span></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [IOT] IRP-IOT action items/next steps on Initiation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Thank you, Susan.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">My thoughts are below since I need to send apologies for the meeting tomorrow. There is a conflicting meeting for the Community Representatives Group to nominate members of the IRP Standing Panel that I must attend.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">With respect to the issue of filing-fee costs, Bylaw 4.3(r) indicates that ICANN will bear the administrative costs of maintaining the IRP<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><u>mechanism</u>. In my opinion that
does not include a complainant’s filing fee, which instead should be set (probably by ICDR) so as to conform to international arbitration norms (Bylaw 4.3(n)(i) and (ii)). Whatever is set as an initiation fee should not act as an unreasonable bar to filing
complaints, I think, as that would probably not conform to such norms.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On other costs that might routinely apply, I think that we should ensure that a clear and easily findable link to the schedule of applicable fees on the ICDR website be available. It should not take the labors of Hercules
to find these fees.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">As for any other administrative costs and/or fees that might be shifted under Bylaw 4.3(r), I appreciate the thought you put into this as manifest in the google doc. But I tend to think it better not to try to anticipate/imagine
such costs. Here, I think the principle in the bylaw is ok as written.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Presumably, a prevailing party will make a claim for such costs or fees, the losing party will have an opportunity to challenge the claim, and we should trust the panel to make an appropriate ruling. I believe that here
too they should act consistent with international arbitration norms (see also Bylaw 4.3(a)(viii)).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">David<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">David McAuley<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Policy Director<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Verisign, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US">IOT <<a href="mailto:iot-bounces@icann.org"><span style="color:#0563C1">iot-bounces@icann.org</span></a>><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Susan Payne via IOT<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, December 2, 2022 5:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:iot@icann.org"><span style="color:#0563C1">iot@icann.org</span></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[EXTERNAL] [IOT] IRP-IOT action items/next steps on Initiation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hi all<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On our last call, our discussion on initiation we pent much of our time focussed on the allocation of costs and fees, with reference to the language of Bylaws 4.3(r). As a result of this, we had one action item for Sam,
but also a task for all of us to try to give clarity for potential claimants on the costs they will be responsible for. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">We also captured a useful suggestion to use flashes to indicate an updated section (as the UN do), with respect to the planned improvements to the IRP website area which have been anticipated for some time now.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">Action items from our previous call</span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Sam to provide information on costs awards from pre-Transition (2016) IRPs, which may assist with this discussion<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">Action for us all</span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Irrespective of where we come out on the narrow issue of the IRP filing fee, Kavouss raised a point on our last call which I think resonated with most of the group. Participants and potential participants of an IRP need
to know what costs they will be responsible for. This is directly relevant to initiation because potential Claimants to an IRP should be aware of what they are committing to when they make the decision to proceed. If Bylaws 4.3(r) is ambiguous – which, based
on our discussions, does seem to be the case – then we must give them this clarity. Even if we cannot be exhaustive as to all possible costs, we should be able to identify sufficient examples to serve as a guide for participants on what types of costs will
fall to them. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Below is a link to a Google Doc where I have started to capture types of costs that would likely be incurred in an IRP, and tried to identify who bears these costs, currently. In order to make a start on this, I went
back to the .WEB decision since this is a case decided under the new Bylaws and where there were some costs orders made, and I have included a footnote to explain where the costs addressed in that decision seem to give us some guidance. As a result, for a
few items I have indicated both that the Claimant initially paid and that this was later ordered to be reimbursed by ICANN. Indeed, the Claimant’s filing fee, which we have been discussing at length, does appear to have been reimbursed in the .WEB case.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AUMSllaxG_9SicIEVoq4eHwzHn95D8rNPqjwIECNLvI/edit?usp=sharing"><span style="color:#0563C1">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AUMSllaxG_9SicIEVoq4eHwzHn95D8rNPqjwIECNLvI/edit?usp=sharing</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I am putting this forward to get the ball rolling. I am sure that there will be other costs/fees that I have not thought about, and I hope that others in the group will add to this, particularly those who are practitioners.
I would also welcome input from IOT members who disagree with my characterisation of any of these items. I am not a practitioner so may inadvertently have mischaracterised something. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Poppins SemiBold"">Susan Payne<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
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