<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi Malcom<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think you make several excellent points below. At the same time I think you are ascribing certain intent to some of David’s statements that may be unwarranted. Rather than responding in-line [to avoid picking nits] or speaking for David [as he can respond if he feels it is required] I will top post.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">My personal view [recognising that i have been observing in the background and may not be totally current]:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><ul class="MailOutline"><li class="">a party intending to use the IRP (“applicant”) should pay a filing fee. The filing fee should be a first gate to limit trivial or vexatious use of the process, but not so onerous to prevent use of the process. Deserving [needy] applicants should be entitled to seek a waiver of the fee from the panel;</li><li class="">a successful applicant should be entitled to have the filing fee refunded;</li><li class="">the question of costs and fees is best dealt with by the panel having regard to fairness and equity with the IRP process giving some limited guidance which could be:</li><ul class=""><li class="">commercial applicants should pay their own costs [they will presumably get commercial benefit from a positive outcome] and only be entitled to a refund of those costs if ICANN’s opposition is frivolous or vexatious;</li><li class="">non-commercial applicants must apply to the panel for their costs to be met, which may be granted in whole or in part;</li><li class="">ICANN pays its own costs and is only able to claim back costs from an (i) unsuccessful; <b class="">and</b> (ii) frivolous or vexatious applicant [an applicant who is unsuccessful but not frivolous or vexatious should nt be act risk of a claim for ICANN’s costs];</li><li class="">ICANN should pay all the panel / IRP process costs [except for the initial filing fee] and is only entitled to claim a refund of costs if a finding is made that the claim is frivolous or vexatious; and</li><li class="">a party’s costs include both internal, legal and administrative costs [courier, translation etc] and should follow the above process.</li></ul></ul><div><br class=""></div><div>Regards</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Mike</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 5 Dec 2022, at 18:32, Malcolm Hutty via IOT <<a href="mailto:iot@icann.org" class="">iot@icann.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta charset="UTF-8" class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">Dear all,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">David wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">Presumably, a prevailing party will make a claim for such costs or fees, the losing party will have an opportunity to challenge the claim, and we should trust the panel to make an appropriate ruling. I believe that here too they should act consistent with international arbitration norms (see also Bylaw 4.3(a)(viii)).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">I think this notion that a prevailing party will have to claim for costs and fees, while typical for litigation in a court of law, is a big part of what the IRP was intended to avoid.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">The idea was that ICANN would have an independent review process that claimants could access to resolve disputes. Nothing in the bylaws authorises ICANN (or its provider) to condition access this process on payment of fees, just as there is no suggestion that you have to pay to file a Request for Reconsideration or to use the services of the Ombudsman.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">Moreover, in David’s formulation, if a Claimant loses, then they’re not the prevailing party and would not be able to claim for costs and fees. This is quite different to the bylaws requirement that ICANN pays the costs of the IRP, with them only being shifted when the claim was frivolous or vexatious.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">David asserts that the bylaws language requiring ICANN to pay the costs of the IRP mechanism only applies to some intangible costs that form a ‘mechanism’ that somehow exclude the actual operation of that mechanism. I find that distinction artificial, a construct invented to support charging the Claimant, but without foundation in the bylaws.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">We should always look to the Bylaws themselves to understand what is required.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">David’s assertion that the ‘IRP mechanism’ and the process of hearing a dispute are distinct is actually contradicted directly by the bylaws themselves: Bylaw 4.3(r) states quite explicitly that the fees of the panellists who hear the dispute are included in the definition of administrative costs. Yet these fees are incontrovertibly the cost of hearing one individual dispute. So any possible suggestion that the costs of hearing the dispute are outside the definition of “administrative costs” is directly excluded by the clear language of 4.3(r).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">This notion of an IRP mechanism as being something other than the process of hearing disputes arises only because we keep using shorthand: we talk of “the IRP” and forget what the IRP actuall is. We need to look back to the bylaws definition of the IRP to see what the “IRP” really means.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">Bylaws Article 4.3 (a) begins as follows:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); background-color: white;" class="">“ In addition to the reconsideration process described in <u class="">Section 4.2</u>, </span>ICANN<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); background-color: white;" class=""> shall have a separate process for independent third-party review of Disputes (defined in <u class="">Section 4.3(b)(iii)</u>) alleged by a Claimant (as defined in <u class="">Section 4.3(b)(i)</u>) to be within the scope of the Independent Review Process ("<strong class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">IRP</span></strong>"). The IRP is intended to hear and resolve Disputes for the following purposes ("<strong class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Purposes of the IRP</span></strong>"): […]”</span><span class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">This is where IRP is defined: it is a defined term. It refers to “a separate process for independent third-party review of Disputes”. Accordingly when 4.3(r) speaks of ICANN paying for the ‘IRP mechanism’, it is referring to “the process for independent third-party review of Disputes”. The mechanism *<b class="">is</b>* the process: there is nothing else.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">Bylaw 4.3(r) requires ICANN to pay for the process of those Disputes being reviewed. That is what ‘IRP mechanism’ means. Which is entirely consistent with everything else that is said in the Bylaws, including the Purposes.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">Kind Regards,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">Malcolm.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="color: rgb(112, 48, 160);" class=""> Malcolm Hutty | Executive Director, Legal and Policy<o:p class=""></o:p></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">T: +44 7789 987 023 |<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.linx.net/" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193);" class="">www.linx.net</span></a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><span id="cid:image006.png@01D908C3.4290A180"><image006.png></span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="color: rgb(112, 48, 160);" class="">London Internet Exchange Ltd (LINX)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">c/o WeWork, 2 Minster Court, Mincing Lane London EC3R 7BB<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="">Registered in England No. 3137929 at Trinity Court, Trinity Street, Peterborough PE1 1DA<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>IOT <<a href="mailto:iot-bounces@icann.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">iot-bounces@icann.org</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>McAuley, David via IOT<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>05 December 2022 13:28<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:susan.payne@comlaude.com" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">susan.payne@comlaude.com</a>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:iot@icann.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">iot@icann.org</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [IOT] IRP-IOT action items/next steps on Initiation<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">Thank you, Susan.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">My thoughts are below since I need to send apologies for the meeting tomorrow. There is a conflicting meeting for the Community Representatives Group to nominate members of the IRP Standing Panel that I must attend.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">With respect to the issue of filing-fee costs, Bylaw 4.3(r) indicates that ICANN will bear the administrative costs of maintaining the IRP<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><u class="">mechanism</u>. In my opinion that does not include a complainant’s filing fee, which instead should be set (probably by ICDR) so as to conform to international arbitration norms (Bylaw 4.3(n)(i) and (ii)). Whatever is set as an initiation fee should not act as an unreasonable bar to filing complaints, I think, as that would probably not conform to such norms.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">On other costs that might routinely apply, I think that we should ensure that a clear and easily findable link to the schedule of applicable fees on the ICDR website be available. It should not take the labors of Hercules to find these fees.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">As for any other administrative costs and/or fees that might be shifted under Bylaw 4.3(r), I appreciate the thought you put into this as manifest in the google doc. But I tend to think it better not to try to anticipate/imagine such costs. Here, I think the principle in the bylaw is ok as written.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">Presumably, a prevailing party will make a claim for such costs or fees, the losing party will have an opportunity to challenge the claim, and we should trust the panel to make an appropriate ruling. I believe that here too they should act consistent with international arbitration norms (see also Bylaw 4.3(a)(viii)).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">Best wishes,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">David<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">David McAuley<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">Policy Director<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">Verisign, Inc.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>IOT <<a href="mailto:iot-bounces@icann.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">iot-bounces@icann.org</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Susan Payne via IOT<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, December 2, 2022 5:01 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:iot@icann.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">iot@icann.org</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[EXTERNAL] [IOT] IRP-IOT action items/next steps on Initiation<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="3" cellpadding="0" width="1185" style="width: 888.75pt; background-color: rgb(245, 236, 206);"><tbody class=""><tr class=""><td width="1175" style="width: 881.25pt; padding: 0.75pt;" class=""><p class=""><strong class=""><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(153, 51, 0);" class="">Caution:</span></strong><span style="color: rgb(153, 51, 0);" class=""> </span><span style="" class="">This email originated from outside the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. </span><o:p class=""></o:p></p></td></tr></tbody></table><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Hi all<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">On our last call, our discussion on initiation we pent much of our time focussed on the allocation of costs and fees, with reference to the language of Bylaws 4.3(r). As a result of this, we had one action item for Sam, but also a task for all of us to try to give clarity for potential claimants on the costs they will be responsible for. <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">We also captured a useful suggestion to use flashes to indicate an updated section (as the UN do), with respect to the planned improvements to the IRP website area which have been anticipated for some time now.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Action items from our previous call<o:p class=""></o:p></b></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Sam to provide information on costs awards from pre-Transition (2016) IRPs, which may assist with this discussion<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Action for us all<o:p class=""></o:p></b></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Irrespective of where we come out on the narrow issue of the IRP filing fee, Kavouss raised a point on our last call which I think resonated with most of the group. Participants and potential participants of an IRP need to know what costs they will be responsible for. This is directly relevant to initiation because potential Claimants to an IRP should be aware of what they are committing to when they make the decision to proceed. If Bylaws 4.3(r) is ambiguous – which, based on our discussions, does seem to be the case – then we must give them this clarity. Even if we cannot be exhaustive as to all possible costs, we should be able to identify sufficient examples to serve as a guide for participants on what types of costs will fall to them. <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Below is a link to a Google Doc where I have started to capture types of costs that would likely be incurred in an IRP, and tried to identify who bears these costs, currently. In order to make a start on this, I went back to the .WEB decision since this is a case decided under the new Bylaws and where there were some costs orders made, and I have included a footnote to explain where the costs addressed in that decision seem to give us some guidance. As a result, for a few items I have indicated both that the Claimant initially paid and that this was later ordered to be reimbursed by ICANN. Indeed, the Claimant’s filing fee, which we have been discussing at length, does appear to have been reimbursed in the .WEB case.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AUMSllaxG_9SicIEVoq4eHwzHn95D8rNPqjwIECNLvI/edit?usp=sharing" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AUMSllaxG_9SicIEVoq4eHwzHn95D8rNPqjwIECNLvI/edit?usp=sharing</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I am putting this forward to get the ball rolling. I am sure that there will be other costs/fees that I have not thought about, and I hope that others in the group will add to this, particularly those who are practitioners. I would also welcome input from IOT members who disagree with my characterisation of any of these items. I am not a practitioner so may inadvertently have mischaracterised something. <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Poppins SemiBold";" class="">Susan Payne<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></span><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Poppins Light"; color: rgb(149, 7, 52);" class="">Head of Legal Policy<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class=""></span><a href="https://secure-web.cisco.com/1_fqZwmD0LVUqv3bkbwC1oQie03MVXTMWHEHycrK_PG0ShzCIGzF_fBnDG9FjHcMDJN4tlr-YaWC22UStf69G24qky6m33hkrg8UFyxmHu083UmSChJqxoVaftc-peBFVUXLq9IuI2a6LbqCnig1Ok7zRLWrxAdo5oB1VxYGKOCfxtJjmpHi5szn42EkVleM7OvIZstWxrm3gJ7OXAL4GZT1nYmPa5qZEdSBPPGU_3d2ghm7fVJu7M_3UQFARqsSOv2sT1puZvoZp9KrUEedYpZOlcATRfp3eQCoI8TO6fhs/https%3A%2F%2Fcomlaude.com%2F" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Poppins Light"; color: blue; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span id="cid:image007.png@01D908C3.4290A180"><image007.png></span></span></a><span style="font-size: 9pt;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""></span><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Poppins Light";" class="">28-30 Little Russell Street,<br class="">London WC1A 2HN, UK<br class=""><b class=""><span style="color: rgb(149, 7, 52);" class="">T</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>+44 (0) 20 7421 8250<br class=""><b class=""><span style="color: rgb(149, 7, 52);" class="">Ext</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>255</span><span style="font-size: 9pt;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""></span><b class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Poppins Light";" class=""><a href="http://secure-web.cisco.com/1o1hQd12d0SDcx6mbPBYv7xox-vKEiIzN7LER0ZKvGXvRIQn7WlewJP9Lv9uaFFpI4bgTDbXIzHWBu2ZpbvGuTS9EprsKKIVV0X5StfrmGthUSAvmELHgqFH394kLaYwROaX6Q7S7qj4nQ6hGR1w07pae4328uMK08Py3xhQZCT9K-VCprhE8IndFnz9eOd9U0R_sC3eTocOSKHi_hqYdJt6NoW63cxfavggeAGbbszfnlZ9cvaVZq3ly87-gFXe4JsybYBCTd-4Srx1iKokwmWjvZBA1czgRkWgFCvIjyyY/http%3A%2F%2Fcomlaude.com" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(149, 7, 52);" class="">comlaude.com</span></a></span></b><br class=""><br class=""><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/com-laude" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Poppins Light"; color: blue; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span id="cid:image008.png@01D908C3.4290A180"><image008.png></span></span></b></a><b class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Poppins Light";" class=""> </span></b><a href="https://secure-web.cisco.com/1ZeiC_pAMsTw0Kc0K383TCPjqjtkiut1kbAMTKQKv7mQY6KE_h1XmPQhhfHyegNg6C8JP8c_amE229wdPgaoapV_3NjEt5f0u1bNU5efDx2ZuSwnL1THPAgkGzAIN8UxwjUM7swLtEAWdXR9d5Ba3EhiP3lgcEXvErqYVeZXxs5lgy6YYZRsTWf8E-c7bHYV2k-o4aohWwLPwj6opX0yVZD0Z-406ASTW1_VzobZKHaIhBCycUK3fVuKsDR-C0YDzLBlFBRAHoydlXK6XNqJcwqni64pKrgVgeVPh9cyQ4dM/https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fcomlaude%3Flang%3Den" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Poppins Light"; color: blue; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span id="cid:image009.png@01D908C3.4290A180"><image009.png></span></span></b></a><b class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Poppins Light";" class=""> </span></b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/ComLaude/" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Poppins Light"; color: blue; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span id="cid:image010.png@01D908C3.4290A180"><image010.png></span></span></b></a><br class=""><br class=""><span id="cid:image011.png@01D908C3.4290A180"><image011.png></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: center;"><hr size="1" width="100%" align="center" class=""></div><div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient. 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