[NCAP-Discuss] [Ext] RE: Top-level Domains for Private Internets IETF draft

[Jeff Neuman]

Thanks David.  I have already forwarded this to the Subsequent Procedures Policy Development Process working group as we are talking about the issue of “Special Use” domains and ensuring that we have a process to (a) ensure no collisions with those names and (b) ensure there is a dialogue between the ICANN Community and the IETF on future Special Use domains.  Many in the ICANN Community were not happy with the way that .onion came about without any discussion within the ICANN community.

Further, I assume in sending this to the NCAP group, it was the intention of at least one of the authors’ to ensure that there were no future collisions with this name space (e.g., that ICANN not allow the delegation of any string reserved for private use).

Although you are correct that pre-ICANN this stuff was not in the hands of any formal domain name authority, since ICANN’s formations, many discussions have been held within the GNSO (formerly DNSO) and ICANN in general about what to do with the reservation of strings at the top level.  And you are correct that 2 character codes that correspond to existing countries have always been enshrined into our policies to reserve for those countries and for potential new countries.  But that was always done with the assumption that they would be used by the corresponding countries in connection with serving their local Internet community.

So if we were talking about a new country coming into existence, like most recently .ss, we would not have to discuss that because of the agreements within the community to allow 2 characters to be used in connection with that new country (or at least under the supervision of that country).  However, when we start talking about a different use of a 2 character code other than as a ccTLD, such as for private use (or any other use for that matter), that should bring this into the ICANN policy realm.

Jeff Neuman
Senior Vice President
Com Laude | Valideus
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From: David Conrad <david.conrad at icann.org>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 12:09 PM
To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman at comlaude.com>
Cc: Roy Arends <roy.arends at icann.org>; ncap-discuss at icann.org
Subject: Re: [Ext] RE: [NCAP-Discuss] Top-level Domains for Private Internets IETF draft

Jeff,

On Jun 15, 2020, at 8:02 AM, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman at comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman at comlaude.com>> wrote:

ICANN, as far as I can tell, does not have a consensus policy that states that once ISO-3166 codes are created anyone can use it for any purpose. If there is such a policy, I would love to see it.

Traditionally  (as long as I’ve been doing DNS stuff, i.e., 1984-ish), 2-letter ISO-3166 codes have been the domain (pun intended) of ISO-3166/MA and the entities to which ISO-3166/MA assigns control. I am unaware that such control is a subject of ICANN consensus policy, and in the lack of such a policy, my understanding has been that previous usage applied. I gather your view is different?

ISO assigns to character codes, yes.  But ISO does not assign 2 character domains?

No, but as you know, since around 1984, a 2-letter code cannot be delegated unless it is assigned by ISO-3166/MA. ISO-3166/MA has assigned a set of codes to be “user defined” codes, which means they can’t be delegated by ICANN as there is (by definition) no single entity that has been assigned control, thus it would seem to make sense (IMHO) to use them for private namespaces if you want to avoid potential collision.


That is within ICANN’s purview. Yes, we through the ICANN processes have acknowledged the right of ccTLDs to use their assigned codes as ccTLDs,

An interesting perspective.  To be honest, I’m not sure that is a right ICANN has the ability to give or take away, but that’s a probably a different discussion.


but to my knowledge, ICANN has never discussed the ability to use other ISO code lists for other purposes.

OK, but (a) we’re talking about private namespaces which, by definition, ICANN has no control over and (b) Roy/Ed are not speaking for ICANN in any way.


Why should anyone be averse to having this discussion within the ICANN community and why did Roy and Ed decide that the right venue to discuss this issue was the IETF.  To me this is policy issue and not a technical issue?

Not to speak for Roy/Ed (I haven’t spoken to them about this), my guess is that they used the technical forum they were most familiar with.  It might also be that they view publishing via the IETF as being more likely to result in the document being read by the folks who would be considering squatting on an “unused” string.  I wouldn’t imagine they’d be against publishing the document elsewhere, after all, the intent of Internet Drafts is to facilitate discussion, regardless of venue.  However, where/how would you propose they publish?

Regards,
-drc

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