<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">The answer as currently written mistakes collisions for collision analysis. QNM makes no change whatsoever to the collisions phenomena, which starts at the originator environment. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">To the contrary, the more centralized recursive servers people use, the less collisions they face. And since there is a positive correlation between usage of centralized recursive and QNM adoption, it's possible and likely that QNM is correlated to less collisions (although not being any causal relation). </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Also, even for analysis, QNM is an issue for passive analysis only. Ads-based or server-based active analysis have access to effective hostname being queried or being accessed. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Rubens</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 9 May 2022, at 16:18, Thomas, Matthew via NCAP-Discuss <<a href="mailto:ncap-discuss@icann.org" class="">ncap-discuss@icann.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta charset="UTF-8" class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Jeff,<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">With item #1 below, I’m going to say we discussed those impacts within the context of name collisions several times. Let me just talk to the first technology change w/r/t Qname Minimization (QNM). We have referenced other bodies of work [1] [2] [3] that have measured longitudinally the deployment of QNM; furthermore, we have examined those impacts to the various case study strings presented and ultimately arrived at the inclusion of labels beyond the TLD to be part of the CDMs. Understanding the labels, their diversity, their context, etc provides valuable insights into current usage of the non-existent TLD and helps inform potential remediation/outreach efforts. The Root Cause report reiterates that sentiment. Furthermore, I’ll note that deployment of various types of QNM techniques by resolvers also impacts name collision analysis at the second label – not all resolvers “chop off” the extra labels, some add random labels, which will impact any risk assessment.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">As for other changes within the DNS, there are several resources that clearly show additional impacts [4] [5].<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Matt<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">[1]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://blog.verisign.com/security/maximizing-qname-minimization-a-new-chapter-in-dns-protocol-evolution/" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://blog.verisign.com/security/maximizing-qname-minimization-a-new-chapter-in-dns-protocol-evolution/</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">[2]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://dnsthought.nlnetlabs.nl/#qnamemin" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://dnsthought.nlnetlabs.nl/#qnamemin</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">[3]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://research.utwente.nl/en/publications/a-first-look-at-qname-minimization-in-the-domain-name-system" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://research.utwente.nl/en/publications/a-first-look-at-qname-minimization-in-the-domain-name-system</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">[4]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/35979525/DNS_NBER_Working_Paper.pdf" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/35979525/DNS_NBER_Working_Paper.pdf</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">[5]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://rssac002.root-servers.org/volume_udp_v_tcp_queries.html" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://rssac002.root-servers.org/volume_udp_v_tcp_queries.html</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">NCAP-Discuss <<a href="mailto:ncap-discuss-bounces@icann.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">ncap-discuss-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of Jeff Schmidt via NCAP-Discuss <<a href="mailto:ncap-discuss@icann.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">ncap-discuss@icann.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Reply-To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Jeff Schmidt <<a href="mailto:jschmidt@jasadvisors.com" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">jschmidt@jasadvisors.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Date:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Monday, May 9, 2022 at 2:21 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Jennifer Bryce <<a href="mailto:jennifer.bryce@icann.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">jennifer.bryce@icann.org</a>>, "<a href="mailto:ncap-discuss@icann.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">ncap-discuss@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:ncap-discuss@icann.org" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">ncap-discuss@icann.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>[EXTERNAL] Re: [NCAP-Discuss] FINAL REVIEW: NCAP Public Comment responses<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellpadding="0" width="1185" style="width: 888.75pt; background-color: rgb(245, 236, 206);"><tbody class=""><tr class=""><td width="1175" style="width: 881.25pt; padding: 0.75pt;" class=""><div class=""><strong class=""><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(153, 51, 0);" class="">Caution:</span></strong><span style="color: rgb(153, 51, 0);" class=""> </span><span style="" class="">This email originated from outside the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></td></tr></tbody></table><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I have concerns about our responses to the RySG comments:<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">(1) Regarding “changes to the DNS traffic” we have bantered about how qname minimization, doh, local roots, and a handful of other technical changes may impact collisions but I don’t recall anything more rigorous than banter. The “we believe there are changes to DNS traffic…” seems hollow, unsupported, and unactionable. Have we discussed this? Case Study 4.0 presents the issue at a high level but there are no conclusions vis-à-vis collisions.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">(2) The larger RySG comment (row 21 in the Excel) deserves more than the dismissal currently in our response. The RySG comment is fundamental to what this group is tasked to accomplish: do the Case Study and/or Perspective Study indicate there is opportunity to make material improvements to existing procedures? Case Study 5.6 states that the conclusions the community came to a decade ago are “still sound.” We have generated lots of words, pretty graphs, statistics of all types, but I don’t think we’ve made any clear statements about how to materially improve existing procedures.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I think the RySG comment (and for that matter the OCTO comment) are canaries in the coalmine here that we should not merely dismiss or address defensively. These are sophisticated folks that made substantive comments. And these are the folks that need our help to address this issue.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Jeff<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1.5pt; border-left-color: blue; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>NCAP-Discuss <<a href="mailto:ncap-discuss-bounces@icann.org" class="">ncap-discuss-bounces@icann.org</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Jennifer Bryce<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, May 9, 2022 8:08 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ncap-discuss@icann.org" class="">ncap-discuss@icann.org</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[NCAP-Discuss] FINAL REVIEW: NCAP Public Comment responses<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Dear NCAP DG members,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Heather has updated the public comment responses (linked below and Excel version attached) as per the feedback collected from the NCAP Discussion Group call on 27 April. The only lines that changed (beyond adding a “thank you for your feedback”) were lines 14, 20, 21, and 22, as highlighted in the document.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">FINAL CALL ON THE PUBLIC COMMENT RESPONSE DOCUMENT:</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Please review the highlighted changes. If you have any concerns, please raise them on this list before the 11 May Discussion Group call. The finalized document will be included as an appendix in the NCAP Study 2 draft report.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Link to Google doc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zOp-ClPdGqkmwE2xf0HhLg7SKvL3AFmz4ArSRuUF3BI/edit#gid=0" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zOp-ClPdGqkmwE2xf0HhLg7SKvL3AFmz4ArSRuUF3BI/edit#gid=0</a>.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">Thanks,<br class="">Jennifer<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" class="">-- <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(166, 166, 166);" class="">Jennifer Bryce<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(166, 166, 166);" class="">Project Manager, Office of the Chief Technology Officer (OCTO)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(166, 166, 166);" class="">Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(166, 166, 166);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(166, 166, 166);" class="">Skype: jennifer.bryce.icann<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; 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