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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi Jeff,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I don’t know if it’s up to the DG to evaluate the ad tool, but I like Geoff Huston’s suggestion that we run a “test case” on an undelegated string. My best guess is that the SSAC and/or the Technical Review
Team would need to do the final evaluation of that tool, but I defer to the Co-Chairs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">In my opinion, the problem we are solving is that the risk assessment used in the 2012 round was not systematic. Perhaps the best evidence of this is that strings which arguably carry more collision risk than
.mail were delegated and .mail was not. Another problem we are trying to solve is the bad experience of some organizations as documented in Casey’s research. And another problem we are trying to solve is we have no idea what sort of harm may have occurred
to consumers. No one at ICANN marketed this topic to end users of concern to ALAC (and others) and asked them to file reports on their experiences.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">What is different now is we are called upon to develop a systematic process for risk assessment. That comes with a “MUST” in the Sub Pro Final Report Recommendations. If you want the Board to lockup and defer
going forward on the next round, your approach makes sense. If you want the next round to move forward, there needs to be consistency between the answers to the questions the Board put to the SSAC and the “MUST” part of the Sub Pro Recommendations. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Another point of doing this risk assessment in a systematic manner is that if the string is characterized as what the Board refers to in its questions to the SSAC as a “Collision String” (e.g. a high risk string
like maybe .corp or .home), then the Applicant can elect not to proceed to evaluation (and will hopefully get its application money refunded promptly). Having this option be systematic would be different from the 2012 round and the advice is codified and
sits before the Board in the form of Sub Pro Implementation Guidance 29.5. (As a reminder, the word “should” in the Sub Pro Final Report means that it’s expected to be done unless there is a documented compelling reason not to do it.)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I think the last thing we want as a community is for the Board to come back with “What is your documented compelling reason for not developing the test described in Implementation Guidance 29.5?” That would
just result in more delay. Or from the ICANN Board – “Well, given the questions we posed to the SSAC and the Advice provided by the SSAC, the GAC and the ALAC, we really can’t move forward with the next round until you provide us with the risk assessment
tool set out in the Sub Pro Final Report as a “MUST” because “We, the Board, don’t make policy and so the community has to go back to the drawing board.” In short, the community has to learn to resolve its differences before they get to the Board level, so
I’m happy you are participating in good faith toward that end. Said another way, community participants are hopefully mature enough to resolve these difference without fighting in front of the “parents” and expecting them to resolve the fights.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I’m very interested in the observation you made that everything in the Passive Collision Assessment section Matt explained is “nothing new” (though that terminology is a bit derogatory, as is “science experiment”.
) I guess that means that Interisle and JAS already know how to supply that PCA analysis to the Technical Review Team and could do that for a fee pursuant to an awarded RFP. Is that correct? At least they could offer to perform that service if it doesn’t
involve the ad measurement piece? (As I understand it, the purpose of PCA is to identify very high risk strings that likely should not move forward.)</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thank you,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Anne <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:106%"><b><span style="color:#323232">Anne E. Aikman-Scalese</span></b><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:3.0pt;line-height:106%"><span style="color:#323232">Of Counsel</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:106%"><span style="color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:AAikman@lewisroca.com" target="_new" title="Email User"><span style="color:#323232">AAikman@lewisroca.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:.25in;line-height:106%"><span style="color:#323232">D. 520.629.4428</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> NCAP-Discuss <ncap-discuss-bounces@icann.org>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jeff Schmidt via NCAP-Discuss<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 8, 2022 11:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Steve Sheng <steve.sheng@icann.org>; ncap-discuss@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NCAP-Discuss] [Ext] Re: An Approach to Measuring Name Collisions Using Online Advertisement<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">[EXTERNAL]</span></strong><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">While leveraging the Google ad network to collect data is clever, we have absolutely no idea what sorts of data it will generate and if the data is at all useful for the purpose. It’s truly a science experiment.
Not that I’m opposed to science projects or evaluating new approaches, but this is something that needs to be production ready and defensible if NCAP is going to recommend it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">We know a lot about the other collision metrics we’ve discussed: they’ve been used for decades or longer, published, peer-reviewed, and are back-test-able. Throwing new, unproven, un-back-test-able Google
ad network data into the mix at this late date, with no history, guidelines, thresholds, etc. - as a gatekeeper in the application process - seems a recipe for disaster. We can’t even discuss thresholds or criteria in advance because we have no idea what the
data will look like! And it’s not testable until after the first delegation so we have to recommend it first then hope for the best. We have no baseline and nothing to compare it to. What is “good” and what is “bad?”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Also, the Google ad network approach will only tell us about a subset of unknown representation of networks/infrastructure where Google ad processing browsers are attached. False negatives and false positives
(result is not representative of local network segment/infrastructure) may occur in situations where the DNS resolution infrastructure is unrelated to the local network segment (people using GoogleDNS, CloudflareDNS, OpenDNS, on a VPN, etc) – all increasingly
common. Additionally, Google ad networks are blocked in not insignificant networks globally.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Also, I believe this approach relies on a unique relationship between Google and a researcher (allowing JavaScript network libraries to run in ads that are typically blocked) and this approach may not be directly
transferrable to other ad networks (where those unique relationships may not exist). Unfortunately, if limited to Google (itself a large Registry Operator), perceptions of conflicts of interest and unequal access to data may become an issue.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I have my doubts if this adds anything to our understanding of collisions; certainly one wonders if the proverbial juice is worth the squeeze. See page 25 of our final report:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">"Even though all of our HTTP honeypot pages contained the overt request to contact<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">us, JAS received not a single notification. Reviewing our HTTP logs, less than 8% of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">DNS resolutions ultimately led to the retrieval of one of our HTTP honeypot pages.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Reviewing the HTTP logs further, less than 12% of those 8% reported an HTTP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">user-agent that could be considered a user-facing application (i.e. a Browser)."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Net-net: The vast majority of the things requesting colliding DNS names weren't human-facing/browser-y things. The things that would be running Google ads.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Finally, this approach is ripe for gaming and will be gamed if it is a gatekeeper in a future application round. All the approaches to ad-fraud / click-fraud might be used to steer this type of study any way
an unscrupulous actor desires. The folks with experience running ad network research have never had to deal with adversaries actively working against them seeking to manipulate the results.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">This is a solution in search of a problem, IMHO. What specific problems are we solving and is a science experiment justified?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="color:black">Steve Sheng <<a href="mailto:steve.sheng@icann.org">steve.sheng@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, April 29, 2022 at 9:32 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Jeff Schmidt <<a href="mailto:jschmidt@jasadvisors.com">jschmidt@jasadvisors.com</a>>,
<a href="mailto:ncap-discuss@icann.org">ncap-discuss@icann.org</a> <<a href="mailto:ncap-discuss@icann.org">ncap-discuss@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Ext] Re: [NCAP-Discuss] An Approach to Measuring Name Collisions Using Online Advertisement<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:wf_segoe-ui_normal;color:#212121">You don't often get email from
<a href="mailto:steve.sheng@icann.org">steve.sheng@icann.org</a>. </span><span style="color:black"><a href="https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:wf_segoe-ui_normal">Learn why this is important</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:wf_segoe-ui_normal;color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hi Jeff, </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> This is not SSAC recommendation or an official SSAC work product, but a thought piece generated by some SSAC members.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> I hope this clarifies, let me know if you have further questions.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Best</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Steve</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">From: </span></b><span style="color:black">Jeff Schmidt <<a href="mailto:jschmidt@jasadvisors.com">jschmidt@jasadvisors.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 6:08 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Steve Sheng <<a href="mailto:steve.sheng@icann.org">steve.sheng@icann.org</a>>, "<a href="mailto:ncap-discuss@icann.org">ncap-discuss@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:ncap-discuss@icann.org">ncap-discuss@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[Ext] Re: [NCAP-Discuss] An Approach to Measuring Name Collisions Using Online Advertisement</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">For clarity, is this an “SSAC Recommendation” or any sort of official SSAC work-product, or is it a thought piece generated by people that happen to also be SSAC Members?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thx,<br>
Jeff</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="color:black">NCAP-Discuss <<a href="mailto:ncap-discuss-bounces@icann.org">ncap-discuss-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of Steve Sheng <<a href="mailto:steve.sheng@icann.org">steve.sheng@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 4:57 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:ncap-discuss@icann.org">ncap-discuss@icann.org</a> <<a href="mailto:ncap-discuss@icann.org">ncap-discuss@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[NCAP-Discuss] An Approach to Measuring Name Collisions Using Online Advertisement</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:wf_segoe-ui_normal;color:#212121">You don't often get email from
<a href="mailto:steve.sheng@icann.org">steve.sheng@icann.org</a>. </span><span style="color:black"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification__;!!PtGJab4!p3DXeMB6HOS0UqNysHwCmwPhWuQvaDpsGkjieh_W0vvXPhgDbXClUE1yeuD1-om5PzXKFbw$"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:wf_segoe-ui_normal">Learn
why this is important [aka.ms]</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:white">Dear NCAP Discussion Group,
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> The SSAC NCAP WP, a group of SSAC members who are actively following and participating in the NCAP work, have developed a proposal to measure name collisions using advertisement-based measurement. It will
complement the passive collision analysis as discussed in the discussion group by providing more direct data on the collision rates for a given candidate TLD string as well as variance in collision rates between countries and between individual networks.
The data may also help mitigation of name collisions. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Please see the attached proposal for your consideration.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Best</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Steve Sheng</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On behalf of SSAC NCAP WP</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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