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<p class="MsoNormal">> Please contribute text that you believe is a better representation of the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">> various points of view. Alternatively, please suggest changes to the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">> existing text that will better accommodate the various points of view.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">> I am certain the editor, Heather Flanagan, is listening.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I propose the “comparison tables” in my ppt be included in the report, or some version thereof. Casey also made something similar a while back iirc. Happy to debate the specific content. Let’s ensure that we are presenting all the facts
to the reader about the many plusses and minuses of each option in an intellectually honest manner, and that we do not state or infer that there is an “absolutely” superior solution. It’s a sea of tradeoffs. As this is supposed to be a technical working group,
that detailed content is appropriate.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jeff<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> James Galvin <galvin@elistx.com> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 2, 2023 1:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jeff Schmidt <jschmidt@jasadvisors.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> ncap-discuss@icann.org; Casey Deccio <casey@deccio.net><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NCAP-Discuss] NCAP notes: 22 February 2023<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">if you don’t like or believe the JAS, Verisign, and Casey commentary on this. . . I’m not sure how to help.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Jeff,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I have contributed text for the report that is expressly intended to represent all points of view. I appear to have missed the mark.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Please contribute text that you believe is a better representation of the various points of view. Alternatively, please suggest changes to the existing text that will better accommodate the various points of view.
I am certain the editor, Heather Flanagan, is listening.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I completely agree with you Jeff. We should no longer be debating our points of view. It’s about capturing our points of view in the document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Please help by contributing text.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">For everyone else, please do feel free to help resolve this discussion by proposing text or revising the existing text. All contributions are most welcome.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Jim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">On 2 Mar 2023, at 13:42, Jeff Schmidt wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Jim:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">> Are users likely to see those “breadcrumbs” and thus actually use them?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">> No.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">One of our areas of disagreement is that (IMO) you overestimate the “notification effectiveness” of the honeypot approach
and underestimate the notification effectiveness of CI. Because very little of the colliding traffic is actually browser-y, and all modern browsers will prefer https, it is extremely, extremely unlikely that *<b>any</b>* end users in normal course will actually
see the honeypot content. Both Casey and I have written about this ad nauseum. We are therefore left to communicate with administrators through logs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">> When I define user I’m imagining an actual physical person.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">> The question, in my mind, is whether or not that actual physical<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">> person is going to understand what is happening when a name<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">> collision happens and thus be able to take direct action to resolve<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">> the “problem” they are having.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">I agree with you, “Mabel in Accounting” is not the intended audience for the notification. The intended audience is some
IT guy or gal that has a chance of understanding the problem and fixing it. That’s how I define “user.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Those are the very people that search google, stackoverflow.com, serverfault.com, etc, and are most likely to benefit
from the tens of thousands of references therein. These are the people that start looking at logs when things break – thus the “interrupt and communicate through logs” approach.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">If you drill into the “google 127.0.53.53” experience – as this group did in NCAP Study 1, and as JAS did in our “Phase
2 report” – we see evidence that this does indeed happen. Those people are getting both the notification and the information they need. There are many, many, many more examples of this desired experience than the microscopic sample of people that filled-out
the ICANN form claiming otherwise. (Notwithstanding the fact that they probably found ICANN and the form by Google!)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Again, I’m all for notification. Notification is a Very Good Thing. We all want that. The disagreement is about whether
the *<b>effectiveness</b>* of the notification may be improved. Given DNS has no end user signaling channel, we’re all being creative to layer on these sorts of comms in “clever” ways. It will be a risk-reward balancing act.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">> that are certainly no worse than CI and absolutely improve its effectiveness<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">> in response to the changed DNS infrastructure of today. You may have a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">> different opinion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">I strongly object to blanket statements like this. “Absolutely improve its effectiveness” is objectively false. Hoping
real hard that it’s an improvement - without facts or operational experience - does not equate to such a disingenuous and completely unsupported blanket statement. I don’t know how we’re still saying things like this as a group – if you don’t like or believe
the JAS, Verisign, and Casey commentary on this. . . I’m not sure how to help.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">CI is an imperfect solution to a problem for which there are no perfect solutions. Try as we may, we have yet to identify
an objectively superior solution to CI.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Slide 1 of my comparison deck (re-attached here, first shared with NCAP in Feb 2022 and largely ignored) would be good
content for the NCAP report. Also see Casey’s 2/16/23 email to the list, which is clear and well-reasoned. In my opinion, this group needs to debate the *<b>facts</b>* of the attached and Casey’s recent 16 Feb email. Upon agreement of baseline facts, we can
consider paths forward. In the current state where factions are operating from different facts, consensus on the path forward is impossible.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">
</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">James Galvin <</span><a href="mailto:galvin@elistx.com"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">galvin@elistx.com</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">><br>
<b>Date:</b> Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 10:37 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jeff Schmidt <</span><a href="mailto:jschmidt@jasadvisors.com"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">jschmidt@jasadvisors.com</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Casey Deccio <</span><a href="mailto:casey@deccio.net"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">casey@deccio.net</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">>,
</span><a href="mailto:ncap-discuss@icann.org"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">ncap-discuss@icann.org</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> <</span><a href="mailto:ncap-discuss@icann.org"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">ncap-discuss@icann.org</span></a><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NCAP-Discuss] NCAP notes: 22 February 2023</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Two comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">First, any editorial suggestions you have for how to make the point are most welcome.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Second, I think we’re talking past each other and in fact we are in violent agreement. I surmise that the problem is how we are each defining “user notification”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">When I define user I’m imagining an actual physical person. The question, in my mind, is whether or not that actual physical person is going to understand what is happening when a name collision
happens and thus be able to take direct action to resolve the “problem” they are having.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">So, is controlled interruption (CI) disruptive? Yes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Is CI impactful to users? Yes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Does CI leave helpful “breadcrumbs” for users? Yes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Can users follow those “breadcrumbs” and get help with their issue? Yes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Are users likely to see those “breadcrumbs” and thus actually use them? No.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">In my opinion, it is self-evident that the answer to the last question is “no”. You may have a different opinion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">In my opinion, based on 5 decades of experience with technology and people who know nothing about technology except maybe how to use it, if you don’t actually put instructions in front of people
you get very little reaction. I don’t think it takes any form of academic research to accept and believe that is true, i.e., it is self-evident. CI does not put instructions in front of people. It leaves breadcrumbs that may or may not be seen and followed.
In contrast, the proposed enhancements seek to put actual instructions in front of users in a few select cases. The proposed enhancements will still leave breadcrumbs, like CI, in many cases, but in a few select cases they have a higher probability of getting
instructions to users.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">CI is not effective at user notification because it does not directly reach the user. It leaves “breadcrumbs”, which you could make the case are a form of user notification. However, if user is a
physical person, then CI is simply not effective. You may have a different opinion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">In conclusion, CI is certainly a choice for ACA. This study is simply proposing enhancements, adding features to the particular CI implementation choice made in 2012 (which personally I believe were
great choices in 2012), that are certainly no worse than CI and absolutely improve its effectiveness in response to the changed DNS infrastructure of today. You may have a different opinion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Please propose text for the study final report.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Jim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">On 1 Mar 2023, at 14:34, Jeff Schmidt wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Googling “127.0.53.53” yields 14,600+ results right now:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">+ 70+ threads from stackoverflow.com (common IT forum)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">+ 162+ threads from serverfault.com (another common IT forum)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">+ Microsoft’s technet forum<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">+ Google’s chromium forum<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">+ ICANN’s own information<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Compare this to the truly microscopic sample of research conducted based on reports to ICANN.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Any statement that CI is somehow “not effective for user notification” is simply wrong and not supported quantitatively
or qualitatively.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Sure we all want things to be “better” but these blanket statements are unhelpful, factually wrong, and disingenuous.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> NCAP-Discuss <</span><a href="mailto:ncap-discuss-bounces@icann.org"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">ncap-discuss-bounces@icann.org</span></a><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">>
<b>On Behalf Of</b> Casey Deccio<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 1, 2023 1:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James Galvin <</span><a href="mailto:galvin@elistx.com"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">galvin@elistx.com</span></a><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">><br>
<b>Cc:</b> </span><a href="mailto:ncap-discuss@icann.org"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">ncap-discuss@icann.org</span></a><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NCAP-Discuss] NCAP notes: 22 February 2023<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Jim,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Part of our disagreement is that we are understanding terms very differently.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">To me, "user notification" is ambiguous. It might refer to either or both of the following: disruption, which falls under
the "effective alerting coverage" category (i.e., "something is wrong"); or root cause identification, which leads to the user to know what caused the issue. This is why the root causes analysis uses both "disruption" and "root cause identification".<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Additionally, the finding quoted below has been quoted in isolation. Please see other findings for more context to support
this. For example: "Usage of private DNS suffixes colliding with newly delegated TLDs has decreased over time." The analysis shows that private use of DNS suffixes has decreased over time, and the only mechanism that has been deployed thus far is controlled
interruption. I would not therefore call that "ineffective."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Precision in language is important, particularly as we are categorically evaluating past and future methods.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Casey<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">On Mar 1, 2023, at 11:41 AM, James Galvin <</span><a href="mailto:galvin@elistx.com"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">galvin@elistx.com</span></a><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">These notes do not capture an important point that I made during the meeting.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">These notes say:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Finding E.a: Controlled Interruption is not effective for user notification: Casey believes this is a misrepresentation
and noted the root cause analysis data supports his statement on this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">The notes do not capture the point I made:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">This finding is an accurate reflection supported by the Root Cause Analysis research.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">It would seem that Casey and I are drawing different conclusions from the report. However, in partial support of my support
for the Study 2 Finding I submit the following Root Cause Analysis Finding (page 47):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Controlled interruption is effective at disruption, but not at root cause identification.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Controlled interruption has shown to be good at disruption, but not at helping affected users identify the cause of the
problem—at least not in the way that was intended. Evidences. Of the survey respondents that indicated that they used of TLDs, 70% reported having experienced technical issues related to their suffix. Of those, 43% experienced the problems within days of delegation
of the TLD. Over two-thirds (71%) of organizations experiencing technical problems indicated that they knew that the issues were related to TLD delegation before the problem was resolved. It appears that most of the ineffectiveness was due to the controlled
interruption IP address not even being observed, which occurred in 71% of cases, according to the survey. However, when the controlled interruption IP address was observed, the success rate in identifying ICANN and controlled interruption as the cause was
between 50% and 76%, according to the survey results and the Web search results analysis, respectively.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">I also made the point during the meeting that it seemed to me the issue being debated was simply the wording of the Study
2 Finding, not its factual assertion. I said then and I’m repeating now that I welcome suggestions for how to restate the Study 2 Finding.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Jim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">On 23 Feb 2023, at 6:02, Jennifer Bryce wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Dear NCAP Discussion Group members,</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> </span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">The notes from the 22 February NCAP Discussion Group meeting are attached and will be posted to the meeting
record on the wiki: </span><a href="https://community.icann.org/x/4YTKDQ"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">https://community.icann.org/x/4YTKDQ</span></a><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">.</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"> </span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">The recording can be directly accessed here:
</span><a href="https://icann.zoom.us/rec/play/sbcwTpyP5v0lmz_OTQFZOsWgFe056FPBSFGAo0pkQjKZ3WEmrCnLCmvgqEwLbFLTiQ619ysohCmhR35l.oNOIneK13LjTRyFh?continueMode=true&_x_zm_rtaid=69f-25JgT9uQd9f13bYzDw.1677121850114.64d0c334f967482c6f176722421c11dd&_x_zm_rhtaid=110"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">https://icann.zoom.us/rec/play/sbcwTpyP5v0lmz_OTQFZOsWgFe056FPBSFGAo0pkQjKZ3WEmrCnLCmvgqEwLbFLTiQ619ysohCmhR35l.oNOIneK13LjTRyFh?continueMode=true&_x_zm_rtaid=69f-25JgT9uQd9f13bYzDw.1677121850114.64d0c334f967482c6f176722421c11dd&_x_zm_rhtaid=110</span></a><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"> </span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">One action item was captured:</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"> </span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><u><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Action item</span></u><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">: Discussion
Group members should review </span><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H89gyy31dGVXQjn304PEGv85EKIpHUAR3vPm76YQMcc/edit"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Section 4: Findings</span></a><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">
</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">and make comments in the document to highlight the areas where they have concerns. This will aid discussion next week.</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="p2"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#777777"> </span><span style="color:#777777"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Best,</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Jennifer</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">-- </span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6">Jennifer Bryce</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6">Project Manager, Office of the Chief Technology Officer (OCTO)</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6">Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6"> </span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6">Skype: jennifer.bryce.icann</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="mailto:jennifer.bryce@icann.org"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Email: jennifer.bryce@icann.org</span></a><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">_______________________________________________<br>
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