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<body><div style="font-family: sans-serif;"><div class="plaintext" style="white-space: normal;"><p dir="auto">Two comments.</p>
<p dir="auto">First, any editorial suggestions you have for how to make the point are most welcome.</p>
<p dir="auto">Second, I think we’re talking past each other and in fact we are in violent agreement. I surmise that the problem is how we are each defining “user notification”.</p>
<p dir="auto">When I define user I’m imagining an actual physical person. The question, in my mind, is whether or not that actual physical person is going to understand what is happening when a name collision happens and thus be able to take direct action to resolve the “problem” they are having.</p>
<p dir="auto">So, is controlled interruption (CI) disruptive? Yes.</p>
<p dir="auto">Is CI impactful to users? Yes.</p>
<p dir="auto">Does CI leave helpful “breadcrumbs” for users? Yes.</p>
<p dir="auto">Can users follow those “breadcrumbs” and get help with their issue? Yes.</p>
<p dir="auto">Are users likely to see those “breadcrumbs” and thus actually use them? No.</p>
<p dir="auto">In my opinion, it is self-evident that the answer to the last question is “no”. You may have a different opinion.</p>
<p dir="auto">In my opinion, based on 5 decades of experience with technology and people who know nothing about technology except maybe how to use it, if you don’t actually put instructions in front of people you get very little reaction. I don’t think it takes any form of academic research to accept and believe that is true, i.e., it is self-evident. CI does not put instructions in front of people. It leaves breadcrumbs that may or may not be seen and followed. In contrast, the proposed enhancements seek to put actual instructions in front of users in a few select cases. The proposed enhancements will still leave breadcrumbs, like CI, in many cases, but in a few select cases they have a higher probability of getting instructions to users.</p>
<p dir="auto">CI is not effective at user notification because it does not directly reach the user. It leaves “breadcrumbs”, which you could make the case are a form of user notification. However, if user is a physical person, then CI is simply not effective. You may have a different opinion.</p>
<br><p dir="auto">In conclusion, CI is certainly a choice for ACA. This study is simply proposing enhancements, adding features to the particular CI implementation choice made in 2012 (which personally I believe were great choices in 2012), that are certainly no worse than CI and absolutely improve its effectiveness in response to the changed DNS infrastructure of today. You may have a different opinion.</p>
<br><p dir="auto">Please propose text for the study final report.</p>
<br><p dir="auto">Jim</p>
<br><br><p dir="auto">On 1 Mar 2023, at 14:34, Jeff Schmidt wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Googling “127.0.53.53” yields 14,600+ results right now:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">+ 70+ threads from stackoverflow.com (common IT forum)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">+ 162+ threads from serverfault.com (another common IT forum)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">+ Microsoft’s technet forum</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">+ Google’s chromium forum</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">+ ICANN’s own information</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Compare this to the truly microscopic sample of research conducted based on reports to ICANN.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Any statement that CI is somehow “not effective for user notification” is simply wrong and not supported quantitatively or qualitatively.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Sure we all want things to be “better” but these blanket statements are unhelpful, factually wrong, and disingenuous.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Jeff</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> NCAP-Discuss <ncap-discuss-bounces@icann.org> <b>On Behalf Of</b> Casey Deccio<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 1, 2023 1:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James Galvin <galvin@elistx.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> ncap-discuss@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NCAP-Discuss] NCAP notes: 22 February 2023</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Jim,</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Part of our disagreement is that we are understanding terms very differently.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">To me, "user notification" is ambiguous. It might refer to either or both of the following: disruption, which falls under the "effective alerting coverage" category (i.e., "something is wrong"); or root cause identification, which leads to the user to know what caused the issue. This is why the root causes analysis uses both "disruption" and "root cause identification".</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Additionally, the finding quoted below has been quoted in isolation. Please see other findings for more context to support this. For example: "Usage of private DNS suffixes colliding with newly delegated TLDs has decreased over time." The analysis shows that private use of DNS suffixes has decreased over time, and the only mechanism that has been deployed thus far is controlled interruption. I would not therefore call that "ineffective."</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Precision in language is important, particularly as we are categorically evaluating past and future methods.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Casey</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Mar 1, 2023, at 11:41 AM, James Galvin <<a href="mailto:galvin@elistx.com">galvin@elistx.com</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">These notes do not capture an important point that I made during the meeting.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">These notes say:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Finding E.a: Controlled Interruption is not effective for user notification: Casey believes this is a misrepresentation and noted the root cause analysis data supports his statement on this.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The notes do not capture the point I made:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">This finding is an accurate reflection supported by the Root Cause Analysis research.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">It would seem that Casey and I are drawing different conclusions from the report. However, in partial support of my support for the Study 2 Finding I submit the following Root Cause Analysis Finding (page 47):</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Controlled interruption is effective at disruption, but not at root cause identification.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Controlled interruption has shown to be good at disruption, but not at helping affected users identify the cause of the problem—at least not in the way that was intended. Evidences. Of the survey respondents that indicated that they used of TLDs, 70% reported having experienced technical issues related to their suffix. Of those, 43% experienced the problems within days of delegation of the TLD. Over two-thirds (71%) of organizations experiencing technical problems indicated that they knew that the issues were related to TLD delegation before the problem was resolved. It appears that most of the ineffectiveness was due to the controlled interruption IP address not even being observed, which occurred in 71% of cases, according to the survey. However, when the controlled interruption IP address was observed, the success rate in identifying ICANN and controlled interruption as the cause was between 50% and 76%, according to the survey results and the Web search results analysis, respectively.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I also made the point during the meeting that it seemed to me the issue being debated was simply the wording of the Study 2 Finding, not its factual assertion. I said then and I’m repeating now that I welcome suggestions for how to restate the Study 2 Finding.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Jim</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">On 23 Feb 2023, at 6:02, Jennifer Bryce wrote:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Dear NCAP Discussion Group members,</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">The notes from the 22 February NCAP Discussion Group meeting are attached and will be posted to the meeting record on the wiki:</span> <a href="https://community.icann.org/x/4YTKDQ"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">https://community.icann.org/x/4YTKDQ</span></a><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">The recording can be directly accessed here:</span> <a href="https://icann.zoom.us/rec/play/sbcwTpyP5v0lmz_OTQFZOsWgFe056FPBSFGAo0pkQjKZ3WEmrCnLCmvgqEwLbFLTiQ619ysohCmhR35l.oNOIneK13LjTRyFh?continueMode=true&_x_zm_rtaid=69f-25JgT9uQd9f13bYzDw.1677121850114.64d0c334f967482c6f176722421c11dd&_x_zm_rhtaid=110"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">https://icann.zoom.us/rec/play/sbcwTpyP5v0lmz_OTQFZOsWgFe056FPBSFGAo0pkQjKZ3WEmrCnLCmvgqEwLbFLTiQ619ysohCmhR35l.oNOIneK13LjTRyFh?continueMode=true&_x_zm_rtaid=69f-25JgT9uQd9f13bYzDw.1677121850114.64d0c334f967482c6f176722421c11dd&_x_zm_rhtaid=110</span></a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">One action item was captured:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><u><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Action item</span></u><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">: Discussion Group members should review</span> <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H89gyy31dGVXQjn304PEGv85EKIpHUAR3vPm76YQMcc/edit"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Section 4: Findings</span></a> <span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">and make comments in the document to highlight the areas where they have concerns. This will aid discussion next week.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#777777">Best,</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#777777">Jennifer</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6">Jennifer Bryce</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6">Project Manager, Office of the Chief Technology Officer (OCTO)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6">Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6">Skype: jennifer.bryce.icann</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="mailto:jennifer.bryce@icann.org"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Email: jennifer.bryce@icann.org</span></a></p>
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