<div dir="ltr">The PSL should break out these pre-delegations into a specially marked section. Otherwise, folks will be confused. The question is: how will they know to do this?</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 3:55 AM Thomas, Matthew via NCAP-Discuss <<a href="mailto:ncap-discuss@icann.org">ncap-discuss@icann.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg5622612061962574081">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Any other comments or questions from the group here about PSL and name collisions? It looks to me that we have landed on pre-advising the PSL as soon as possible but caveat with the
commentary provided below from Jothan.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">@Heather – Can we please get this incorporated into the document as well.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Matt<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">NCAP-Discuss <<a href="mailto:ncap-discuss-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">ncap-discuss-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of Jothan Frakes <<a href="mailto:jothan@jothan.com" target="_blank">jothan@jothan.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, 13 November 2023 at 05:41<br>
<b>To: </b>Rod Rasmussen <<a href="mailto:rod@rodrasmussen.com" target="_blank">rod@rodrasmussen.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>NCAP Discussion Group <<a href="mailto:ncap-discuss@icann.org" target="_blank">ncap-discuss@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[EXTERNAL] Re: [NCAP-Discuss] The Public Suffix List (PSL)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p><strong><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(153,51,0)">Caution:</span></strong><span style="color:rgb(153,51,0)"> </span><span style="color:black">This email originated from outside the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless
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<p class="MsoNormal">I think this will bounce to the list, bit the one hole I found when thinking through the process of adding these, is that revocation (removal) will need a process also.
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The dent in all this is the propogation delay - both for additions and removals.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I go into the challenge in describing propagation challenges in the wiki
<a href="https://secure-web.cisco.com/1cL0XNS1WbCYaKnD2QpIhgqXhIgexI6ziKtvpckyqmh_sr-xJ4UiFbkYRNCXbjqKgl_f7i-mEVoxIC1vTONK4eZGEcO8qNrQl7H7pD-Y6GrNn3UwR-dp3BKvX5coJ7ulqcm3CFOeViqmcHlvFTlSUgRWgqCoHYOiAyFSiuymHe444mqh_0bw6gGWUj0E6bnTmx5-ueKEE24QovYn-bw4q61u19XGxg8GgFZh0KWQcPL7ORoRnc88CcJX5PzF_BXWZ3NF0AvfN0V0peEEDnIo5oUH_qqOymLMqGLqffShVDm8/https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fpublicsuffix%2Flist%2Fwiki%2FGuidelines%23derivative-propagation-timing" target="_blank">
https://github.com/publicsuffix/list/wiki/Guidelines#derivative-propagation-timing</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">We would also need to update the PSL wiki add some wording to the description of whats going on related to the NCAP additions in this page
<a href="https://secure-web.cisco.com/1O6a0z6O8ONIdJaI6YLNB5BlAVcm-Rqhos_1_NtzeWKWTnhBX7ld53RCtZPRsZGc9uKOF-7tfGTmUp-7_ZuT5lSrxdXzmNO-dGIDl1d-GoFaorX3ghxO9d0ULtpYJZ5fgxqzjKcFSC725CPkBPsFDimGuX3EaB5ZfuHSoO-LVy_3TvwFclRgabdd4mKszC2svG2A0UmpqoHqNwN1SSOc8pTMqO5vooMZdfHtbLR0pDddIUzwvGTcZ7HJ4HOYwQy27Ki6ns3taVzJTp5JDX3N7QZkwTZz__41oYDpZIhcZwKQ/https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fpublicsuffix%2Flist%2Fwiki%2FSecurity-Considerations%23the-public-suffix-list-adheres-to-icp-3-and-iab-guidance" target="_blank">
https://github.com/publicsuffix/list/wiki/Security-Considerations#the-public-suffix-list-adheres-to-icp-3-and-iab-guidance</a> as we would be introducing what might be perceived as an exception to the adherence to ICP-3 to add stuff.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 6:03 PM Rod Rasmussen <<a href="mailto:rod@rodrasmussen.com" target="_blank">rod@rodrasmussen.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks Jeff, <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">And knowing a thing or two about how Jothan and the PSL like to work, pre-notification actually fits in the model, so wouldn’t even be a “stretch”. I concur with your analysis and conclusions.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Rod<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Nov 9, 2023, at 11:09 AM, Jeff Schmidt via NCAP-Discuss <<a href="mailto:ncap-discuss@icann.org" target="_blank">ncap-discuss@icann.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Team:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Rolling-up and sharing a number of conversations recently:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The Public Suffix List (PSL) (<a href="https://secure-web.cisco.com/1lY3aM7deSADxxaN1tVgzx8kGYv8gWKkkoe1cYHMdchtbT9-5jwrOO61kg_DK8ONbLlpAPzAPdJISTtlNqpNp4bHne05tM1U6QIA4-p46sqiCi5_6XktHI3eueP9dtPVWFzuby9MCmkVw4m2x86lcpZffcOfKMGiY0REJGXSYlHyAEy_aJwn6T0QdWaKqnaKg8CR1yz7kWDahkd4sYc7Y7LKCfhgx8LR8Vrp9BeNRiiA3urKrFgxJrSmdLNS7VckJQvbw3nSBNEoznNnF8Bz0TUM--JTx8sWuMMxxaflTY20/https%3A%2F%2Fpublicsuffix.org%2F" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">https://publicsuffix.org/</span></a>)
is a volunteer-maintained list of TLDs and “TLD-like” domains like .<a href="http://secure-web.cisco.com/1ODzIQsYmNe5HQZt8y6WkG-AN4TjKzG9o2qd0SqLkDE2LnaOI-CSaw6YXWNXGyhR1wUcK9KL1yDvyGt3GfQ6zwm1a-6Z8gUAZN_8Eu7ubVMs1HGTVLBiOnzeXBKqvqaNjjWLaFphf4METSlDowbEHAl_cz24byGVu3hSgJxHvlvBpA8OjjycbcKsCsx-HCICI2nkffsz5oK0R3DDVJoqQtX9fkCz7EDsCodPSgiNgsMmybdT9ccJvN1AkIKrlNjpV3ihJ8TvBvvWxFOvNfJAWgJLJBqh8_GelneejytPakHA/http%3A%2F%2Fcom.cc%2F" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">com.cc</span></a>,
.<a href="http://secure-web.cisco.com/1kVaulCWljlM7txipkIv0WdVVKT5l5m02RW59dL2U3kSzLhzV6FjnjhkixhFrubKb_CY2_jZ3eKJPEo3dtrNgSyCwQG2DarQBagq7ABtbgzbk022BGAuRZRC50wVBNLeaN2sL8ALeLF7ny1w5TQ3lbDYc7VRquIwtk44xfaubDBIYMk5DvtSeBh3PE-rKOzurk28uT3-9s71r8TXzinn22UoE2vyRV8sAteRQvPOfBfL3cVsNggjESP3Ecu1bxQSpEqy3yheURaVXMYqjzWv2WucqlNF0xJEejKzFZ7WEQ_w/http%3A%2F%2Fco.uk%2F" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">co.uk</span></a>,
etc. PSL is lovingly maintained by Jothan and a small group of folks for quite a while now. The uses of PSL vary widely. There are several other similar projects that effectively maintain lists of TLD-like things for one reason or another.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I believe it is a Finding for NCAP that such projects exist and have lose and widely varying relationships with the collisions phenomenon.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">PSL typically populates itself in one of two ways: (1) Observing IANA actions; and (2) Voluntary submissions. In the case of new gtlds, absent advance notification from ICANN/TRT, PSL would find out about the TLD at the time of an IANA
action (the first trial delegation by the TRT). I think there is only one NCAP consideration beyond the Finding – should ICANN/TRT “pre-advise” PSL (causing PSL publication prior to IANA action), or simply remain silent and allow PSL to pick it up in normal
course?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Like everything Collisions, there is no clear choice and arguments could be made either way. Issues related to end software updates against PSL snapshots and the associated time lags are both unknowable and fortunately out of our remit.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Going back to first principals, we want to:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">(1) Not hurt anything (beyond the intentionally designed notification interruptions)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">(2) Notify those potentially impacted<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">(3) Collect data<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">While I don’t know precisely all the ways folks use PSL, I can imagine the scenario we’re most interested in is software that analyzes a domain name looking thing to determine if it should use DNS to resolve it or do “something else” with
it (perhaps like sending it to search or another resolution mechanism). Given that, since all our assumptions and processes are predicated on the potentially colliding strings being queried in the DNS, I think we should pre-advise the PSL as soon as practical
and leave it at that. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thx,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Jeff<u></u><u></u></p>
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