[registrars] Fwd: ICANN Issues Advisory Regarding the Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy

[elliot noss]

tim, I would like to tell you how the first half of the last  
paragraph you wrote reads for me. I do not say this to be provocative  
but to tell you how I look at it (and judging by the number of people  
who came up to me in delhi to thank me after the RC meeting how a  
great number of others look at it).

you said:

"We (Registrars, the ICANN community, etc.) cannot operate  
effeciently if after years of allowing certain activities based on  
what a policy actually says, we then try to change that activity  
through *Do what I meant. Not what I said.* enforcement principles."

I read:

"We (Registrars, the ICANN community, etc.) cannot operate  
effeciently if after years of allowing certain activities based on  
ignoring a policy, ICANN then tries to change that activity through  
actually enforcing the principles."

I share your frustration in the fact that they did not enforce this  
earlier and let you engage in these practices for years before doing  
something. that is a legitimate gripe. when you talk about a  
dangerous precedent, however, there is none more dangerous than  
effectively setting policy by engaging in practice that ignores policy.

hopefully we can all move forward on this and, first stop engaging in  
the practices which violate existing policy then, together, improve  
it to deal with some of the concerns you have in the existing policy.

Regards
Elliot

On 5-Apr-08, at 7:09 AM, Tim Ruiz wrote:

>
> Paul,
>
> Yes, this is what ICANN now says the policy means. Note however,  
> that it
> doesn't change the policy. In my opinion, the purpose of the  
> advisory is
> to make clear how ICANN Staff interprets the policy, and how it  
> intends
> to enforce the policy. That doesn't mean that all registrars will have
> the same interpretation, or that further disputes upon enforcement
> attempts regarding it won't occur.
>
> That is why it's important that we follow the appropriate process to
> make the changes we think are necessary to the policy itself. Leaving
> less open to interpretation will help prevent distracting disputes  
> over
> the policy.
>
> We (Registrars, the ICANN community, etc.) cannot operate  
> effeciently if
> after years of allowing certain activities based on what a policy
> actually says, we then try to change that activity through *Do what I
> meant. Not what I said.* enforcement principles. That makes no  
> sense at
> all to me. And while you may not be affected by it this time, I would
> hope you can at least see the dangerous precedent this could set.
>
>
> Tim
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: RE: [registrars] Fwd: ICANN Issues Advisory Regarding the
> Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy
> From: Paul Goldstone <paulg at domainit.com>
> Date: Sat, April 05, 2008 1:15 am
> To: Registrar Constituency <registrars at gnso.icann.org>
>
>
> Looks like I didn't read the advisory properly when I wrote this:
>
>> I'm glad that's been clarified, although I suppose "A registrant  
>> change
>> to Whois information" could be interpreted to mean that an
>> Administrative, Billing, Technical or Name Server change doesn't fall
>> under the same rule. :/
>
> According to the advisory...
>
> http://www.icann.org/announcements/advisory-03apr08.htm
>
> "Registrant updates to Whois contact details is not enumerated as a
> valid basis to deny a transfer request in the Transfer Policy. In
> addition, ordinary changes to Whois data fields are not evidence of
> fraud and therefore not a basis to deny a domain name transfer  
> request."
>
> That's a little clearer, and I wanted to follow up so that I didn't
> leave the wrong impression. Having said that, it would have been
> clearer still if they omitted the word Registrant. Of course it
> doesn't mean that the same rule doesn't apply to an admin or tech
> making a whois update, but seeing as they are trying to clarify an
> existing disputed policy they should be as concise as possible.
>
> With all respect, to the comment about *Do what I mean, not what I
> say?*, I feel that ICANN have now said what they mean. I applaud all
> registrars who will change their policies to be in line with what
> ICANN meant, and have now said.
>
> ~Paul
> :DomainIt
>
>
> At 08:50 AM 4/4/2008, Tim Ruiz wrote:
>
>> Elliot,
>>
>> As we've said many times, our position is that we are simply doing  
>> what
>> the policy doesn't expressly prohibit, and for a what we believe  
>> to be a
>> very good reason. That said, in anticipation of this adivosry we
>> have/are changing our internal policy to some degree. And of course,
>> we'd fully participate in any PDP on the subject.
>>
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [registrars] Fwd: ICANN Issues Advisory Regarding the
>> Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy
>> From: elliot noss <enoss at tucows.com>
>> Date: Fri, April 04, 2008 7:28 am
>> To: Registrar Constituency <registrars at gnso.icann.org>
>>
>>
>> remember tim, from many of our perspective you have changed policy
>> with your unilateral actions. this is simply a response to that.
>>
>> as I have suggested to you MANY times publicly, I encourage you to
>> change policy through the methods you described. we would be happy to
>> participate in that process. unfortunately your approach here is much
>> like when the telcos call for "free markets".
>>
>> On Apr 4, 2008, at 7:58 AM, Tim Ruiz wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I agree that the advisory doesn't completely clear up the issues.  
>>> But
>>> that's primarily because the policy itself isn't all that clear on a
>>> number of issues.
>>>
>>> I think the right way to solve some of the ambiguity is through an
>>> appropriate bottom-up consensus process. It would be a dangerous
>>> precedent for us all to allow advisories and clarafications to  
>>> change
>>> policy, even if what was intended appears different from what is
>>> written
>>> in the policy.
>>>
>>> Hundreds of registrars have come on board since the transfer policy
>>> process took place. Many are creds of registrars that existed at the
>>> time, but many are not. Are they expected to go back through the
>>> mountainous archives of dicussions to try and figure out what was
>>> intended? Is it reasonable to expect that we operate under the
>>> principle
>>> of *Do what I mean, not what I say?* I think that's ridiculous.
>>>
>>> There will likely be one or more PDPs on various transfer policy
>>> issues
>>> coming up. We all need to pay close attention to those and be sure
>>> that
>>> our input is as clear and timely as we expect the output to be.
>>>
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: [registrars] Fwd: ICANN Issues Advisory Regarding the
>>> Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy
>>> From: "Marcus Faure" <faure at globvill.de>
>>> Date: Fri, April 04, 2008 4:00 am
>>> To: Paul Goldstone <paulg at domainit.com>
>>> Cc: Registrar Constituency <registrars at gnso.icann.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. Registrars are prohibited from denying a domain name transfer
>>>> request based on non-payment of fees for pending or future
>>>> registration periods during the Auto-Renew Grace Period; and
>>>>
>>>
>>> I do not think that this clarification leads to anything. If you  
>>> want
>>> to charge for transfers during AGP, you simply change the owner on
>>> expiration day and charge whatever you think the customer is able to
>>> pay.
>>>
>>> Marcus
>>>
>>>
>
>
>