[RSSAC Caucus] [Ext] Re: RSSAC Caucus Travel Support for IETF 116 Yokohama, Japan
Alejandro Acosta
alejandro at lacnic.net
Wed Apr 26 16:01:06 UTC 2023
Hello,
For all interested, there is an on-going talk/thread about RFC
3797bis in the general IETF mailing list.
Regards,
Alejandro,
On 14/1/23 1:11 AM, Harish Chowdhary wrote:
> Dear Andrew,
>
> As I went through RFC 3797 several times, I understood the following.
> Please correct me if I am wrong.
>
> There are a few potential disadvantages of using a Publicly Verifiable
> Nominations Committee (NomCom) Random Selection process, such as the
> one outlined in RFC 3797. Some of these include:
>
> Complexity: The process outlined in the RFC is quite complex and may
> be difficult for some people to understand or implement.
>
> Time-consuming: The process of selecting nominees through random
> selection can be time-consuming, especially if there are a large
> number of potential nominees.
>
> *_Limited pool of nominees: The random selection process may not yield
> a diverse group of nominees, as it is based on chance rather than a
> deliberate effort to seek out candidates from underrepresented groups._*
> That is what I had highlighted.
>
>
> Lack of accountability: Because the selection process is random, there
> is no way to hold individuals or groups accountable for the nominees
> that are chosen.
>
> Limited transparency: It can be difficult for members of the community
> to understand or verify the selection process, as it relies on complex
> mathematical algorithms and cryptographic techniques.
>
> Exclusion of certain people: Some individuals may be excluded from the
> selection process if they are not able to provide the necessary
> information or meet the requirements outlined in the RFC, which can be
> a limitation.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Harish Chowdhary
>
>
> On Fri, 13 Jan, 2023, 9:28 pm Andrew McConachie,
> <andrew.mcconachie at icann.org> wrote:
>
> Dear Harish,
>
> RFC 3797 is publicly verifiable. You can run the algorithm
> yourself with the information provided in Steve’s earlier email
> and verify the results yourself. If you are interested in past
> results the archives of this mailing list are available
> at: <https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/rssac-caucus/>
>
> RFC 3797 is string agnostic. Each choice in the lottery is
> assigned an index and that index is the value the algorithm uses.
> Thus, these questions you have about how a name’s ordering may
> impact results are inconsequential.
>
> The sources of randomness are identified before the lottery
> determines the winner. But the random numbers generated by
> these sources cannot be known at the time each potential choice is
> assigned an index. Because of this, there is no way anyone can
> pre-determine an outcome by assigning specific indices to specific
> persons. Because at the time of index assignment no one can know
> which indices will be chosen.
>
> I hope this information helps and if you have further questions
> about how RFC 3797 functions, feel free to reach out. I’m
> certainly not an expert, but I have read it a few times.
>
> Thanks,
> Andrew
>
>> On 11 Jan 2023, at 15:12, Harish Chowdhary
>> <intern3tgovernance at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Steve,
>>
>> Thank you very much for your response.
>>
>> *Please provide the following information to help us understand
>> the process and fill any gaps in our knowledge.*
>>
>> 1. Please tell us what the results of the RSSAC CAUCUS IETF
>> travel support have been since the program's inception, as
>> well as why these rules were created, so we can determine
>> whether this is a new process or a replacement for an old one.
>> 2. Also, please provide the results for the following
>> combinations so that we can see how the algorithm works when
>> it selects the person with the one name from the following
>> options:
>>
>> * FirstName LastName (Harish Chowdhary)
>> * LastName FirstName (Chowdhary Harish)
>> * Only the first name is used. (Harish)
>>
>>
>> Multiple places state that guidelines are only for reference and
>> are not binding. Here due to the limited pool of applicants who
>> are applying; in most cases, the result would be the same/similar.
>> _*Non availability of the requested data would conclude the
>> results are not valid.*_
>>
>> I remember a very important discussion was started at IETF 100 in
>> order to incorporate human perspectives into standards and
>> protocols such as the RFC discussed here; it may not have any
>> issues, but the implementation may have relied on similar inputs
>> from a very small input domain.
>>
>> Most importantly, because only a small number of experts are
>> participating, the lottery system should not preclude active
>> participation.
>> _*The goal is to treat everyone as a person, not just a number in
>> a lottery.*_
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Harish Chowdhary
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:39 PM Steve Sheng
>> <steve.sheng at icann.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Harish,
>>
>> Thanks for your email. I see two questions and let me
>> respond to them separately.
>>
>> *Regarding your concern that the random selection always
>> select the alpha A first,* I have double-checked the result
>> using two implementations of RFC 3797 and both yields the
>> same responses. I have also checked and confirmed that the
>> randomness we use follows the guidelines laid out in section
>> 3 of RFC3797. Based on these, I concluded that we have
>> followed RFC 3797. I have also checked with other communities
>> that use RFC3797 and did not find evidence that it always
>> selects the alpha A first. Based on these, and unless proven
>> otherwise, I conclude the selection is valid.
>>
>> * Regarding your question “**I hope travel support should be
>> even and given to member who never received it and based upon
>> some rationale rather than a lottery,”*this selection has
>> been done as outlined in the IETF Supported Travelers Funding
>> Guidelines attached. The guidelines do not preclude an RSSAC
>> Caucus member from being considered for travel support even
>> if they received travel support in the past.
>>
>> I hope this helps. Let me know if you have more questions.
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> *From: *Harish Chowdhary <intern3tgovernance at gmail.com>
>> *Date: *Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 12:33 PM
>> *To: *Steve Sheng <steve.sheng at icann.org>
>> *Cc: *Ozan Sahin <ozan.sahin at icann.org>, RSSAC Caucus
>> <rssac-caucus at icann.org>
>> *Subject: *[Ext] Re: [RSSAC Caucus] RSSAC Caucus Travel
>> Support for IETF 116 Yokohama, Japan
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> Please see results of IETF 104.
>>
>> Results
>>
>> Key String: 15.21.29.35.54.60./6.7.10.11.19.27.37./6739./
>>
>> 4. Daniel Migault
>>
>> 6. Anand Raje
>>
>> 11. Amir Qayyum
>>
>> 10. Alejandro Acosta
>>
>> 1. Robert Story
>>
>> 5. Ihtisham Khalid
>>
>> 9. Dr AbdulkarIm Oloyede
>>
>> 2. Ramanou BIAOU
>>
>> 12. MOHIT BATRA
>>
>> 3. George Russell Mundy
>>
>> 14. Anupam Agrawal
>>
>> 8. Shailesh Gupta
>>
>> 13. Rao Naveed Bin Rais
>>
>> 7. Harish Chowdhary
>>
>> The funded travelers are: Daniel Migault, Anand Raje, Amir
>> Qayyum and Alejandro Acosta
>>
>> Any suggestions please.
>>
>> I hope travel support should be even and given to memeber who
>> never recieved it and based upon some rationale rather than a
>> lottery.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Harish Chowdhary
>>
>> On Wed, 4 Jan, 2023, 9:32 pm Steve Sheng,
>> <steve.sheng at icann.org> wrote:
>>
>> Dear RSSAC Caucus,
>>
>> Please see the result of the random selection.
>>
>> Source of Randomness:
>>
>> #1 Euro Millions Tuesday 3 January 2023: 3 10 20 21 29 45 46
>> (https://www.euro-jackpot.net/en/euromillions
>> [euro-jackpot.net]
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.euro-jackpot.net/en/euromillions__;!!PtGJab4!9mDotgBboJAnmpYunDz_PyhwSc5vp7UkbR5rj3jEzITkbbyI9bTrf0zD_7nuCL1rcOWWkBvVrH_8r533xO71vXF9h46eJkTjdSc$>)
>>
>> #2 US Lucky for Life Tuesday 3 January 2023: 1 14 24 34 45 47
>> (https://www.luckyforlife.us/winning-numbers/
>> [luckyforlife.us]
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.luckyforlife.us/winning-numbers/__;!!PtGJab4!9mDotgBboJAnmpYunDz_PyhwSc5vp7UkbR5rj3jEzITkbbyI9bTrf0zD_7nuCL1rcOWWkBvVrH_8r533xO71vXF9h46e0J7GmJw$>)
>>
>> #3 NASDAQ closing index (rounded to the nearest integer)
>> on Tuesday 3 January 2023: 10387
>> (https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/index/comp
>> [nasdaq.com]
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/index/comp__;!!PtGJab4!9mDotgBboJAnmpYunDz_PyhwSc5vp7UkbR5rj3jEzITkbbyI9bTrf0zD_7nuCL1rcOWWkBvVrH_8r533xO71vXF9h46e5NdXnA8$>)
>>
>> Result:
>>
>> 5. Anand Raje
>>
>> 1. Rao Naveed Bin Rais
>>
>> 3. Hafiz Farooq
>>
>> 2. Harish Chowdhary
>>
>> 4. Mallory Knodel
>>
>> Thus, Anand Raje and Rao Naveed Bin Rais will receive
>> funding of IETF 116.
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> *From: *Steve Sheng <steve.sheng at icann.org>
>> *Date: *Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 9:49 AM
>> *To: *Ozan Sahin <ozan.sahin at icann.org>,
>> "rssac-caucus at icann.org" <rssac-caucus at icann.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [RSSAC Caucus] RSSAC Caucus Travel Support
>> for IETF 116 Yokohama, Japan
>>
>> Dear RSSAC Caucus,
>>
>> Sorry for the delay in handling this random selection.
>> Here is a list of RSSAC Caucus members to be entered into
>> the random selection:
>>
>> 1. Rao Naveed Bin Rais
>> 2. Harish Chowdhary
>> 3. Hafiz Farooq
>> 4. Mallory Knodel
>> 5. Anand Raje
>>
>> Number of Slots: 2
>>
>> Source of Randomness:
>>
>> #1 Euro Millions Tuesday 3 January 2023
>> (https://www.euro-jackpot.net/en/euromillions
>> [euro-jackpot.net]
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.euro-jackpot.net/en/euromillions__;!!PtGJab4!9mDotgBboJAnmpYunDz_PyhwSc5vp7UkbR5rj3jEzITkbbyI9bTrf0zD_7nuCL1rcOWWkBvVrH_8r533xO71vXF9h46eJkTjdSc$>)
>> #2 US Lucky for Life Tuesday 3 January 2023
>> (https://www.luckyforlife.us/winning-numbers/
>> [luckyforlife.us]
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.luckyforlife.us/winning-numbers/__;!!PtGJab4!9mDotgBboJAnmpYunDz_PyhwSc5vp7UkbR5rj3jEzITkbbyI9bTrf0zD_7nuCL1rcOWWkBvVrH_8r533xO71vXF9h46e0J7GmJw$>)
>> #3 NASDAQ closing index (rounded to the nearest integer)
>> on Tuesday 3 January 2023
>> (https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/index/comp
>> [nasdaq.com]
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/index/comp__;!!PtGJab4!9mDotgBboJAnmpYunDz_PyhwSc5vp7UkbR5rj3jEzITkbbyI9bTrf0zD_7nuCL1rcOWWkBvVrH_8r533xO71vXF9h46e5NdXnA8$>)
>>
>> A Publicly Verifiable Random Selection Process will be
>> conducted by Staff on Wed 4 January 2023, using the RFC
>> 3797 method. The results (as well as other data) will be
>> announced to the list on the same day, after which you
>> can verify the result yourself.
>> Best regards,
>> Steve Sheng
>>
>> *From: *rssac-caucus <rssac-caucus-bounces at icann.org> on
>> behalf of Ozan Sahin <ozan.sahin at icann.org>
>> *Date: *Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 3:37 PM
>> *To: *"rssac-caucus at icann.org" <rssac-caucus at icann.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [RSSAC Caucus] RSSAC Caucus Travel Support
>> for IETF 116 Yokohama, Japan
>>
>> Dear RSSAC Caucus Members,
>>
>> We have received the following requests for travel
>> support to IETF 116.
>>
>> 1. Rao Naveed Bin Rais
>> 2. Harish Chowdhary
>> 3. Hafiz Farooq
>> 4. Mallory Knodel
>> 5. Abdulkarim Oloyede
>> 6. Anand Raje
>> 7. Dessalegn Yehuala
>>
>> According to the RSSAC Caucus IETF Supported Travelers
>> Funding Guidelines, RSSAC Admin Committee is allocating
>> two trip slots to the following RSSAC Caucus members:
>>
>> * Abdulkarim Oloyede
>> * Dessalegn Yehuala
>>
>> For the remaining two slots, we will do a verifiable
>> random selection as specified by RFC 3797.
>>
>> A Publicly Verifiable Random Selection Process will be
>> conducted by Staff on Thursday 22 December 2022, using
>> the RFC 3797 method. The results (as well as other data)
>> will be announced to the list on the same day, after
>> which you can verify the result yourself.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Ozan Sahin
>>
>> *From: *rssac-caucus <rssac-caucus-bounces at icann.org> on
>> behalf of Ozan Sahin <ozan.sahin at icann.org>
>> *Date: *23 November 2022 Wednesday 17:12
>> *To: *"rssac-caucus at icann.org" <rssac-caucus at icann.org>
>> *Subject: *[RSSAC Caucus] RSSAC Caucus Travel Support for
>> IETF 116 Yokohama, Japan
>>
>> Dear RSSAC Caucusmembers,
>> RSSAC Admin Committee understands that ICANN organization
>> may be sharing new sponsered travel information and
>> guidancefor ICANN community to attend non-ICANN events in
>> the next weeks. As a result, travel support to attend
>> even-numbered IETF meetings may be available once again.
>> In order to not miss the relevant notice periods, RSSAC
>> Admin Committee would like to start the selection process
>> to identify sponsered RSSAC Caucus members to attend the
>> next IETF meeting.
>>
>> IETF 116 will take place in Yokohama, Japanfrom 25- 31
>> March2023. Pending the travel advice from ICANN
>> organization, there may betravel support for up to four
>> (4) RSSAC Caucus Members to attend IETF 116 including
>> economy class airfare, accommodation, registration, and
>> per diem.
>> As you may remember, RSSAC approved guidelines for RSSAC
>> Caucus members requesting travel support to attend
>> even-numbered IETF meetingsin 2019. Please see the
>> approved guidelines attached. Depending on how many
>> requests we receive, the RSSAC Administrative Committee
>> may need to make the selection based on the selection
>> criteria outlined in the guidelines.
>> If you would like to apply and be considered for travel
>> support, please complete the following form by *Friday,
>> **2 December 2022*: https://forms.gle/edQvwjYgVLzbgUSS9
>> [forms.gle]
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/forms.gle/edQvwjYgVLzbgUSS9__;!!PtGJab4!9m5qumXaTDkZtDfXDPP-zysIU68gEAg4fuv297qYkNvBGJLC1gDTvKZwpGg4qH_zumtMvOv4m378Srp6FTjbjSqi10w$>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Ozan Sahin
>>
>> Policy Development Support Senior Specialist
>>
>> Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
>>
>> Mobile: +90 533 641 0007
>>
>> Skype: ozan.sahin.icann
>>
>> www.icann.org <http://www.icann.org/>
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> *Thanks,
>> Harish Chowdhary,
>> Technology Analyst*
>> www.indiaig.in [indiaig.in]
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.indiaig.in__;!!PtGJab4!-PuXK2kWCsgVSxGqaET2yan33hhb65BBPADsvDrrsNQUdKvS5DaAOHk2GvmmsfFzcaxWokMeMYG0Iz2EUv71uOUeY4nXVqvJ44f7l9U$>
>>
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>
>
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