[RSSAC Caucus] [Ext] Re: RSSAC Caucus Travel Support for IETF 116 Yokohama, Japan

[Harish Chowdhary]

Dear Andrew,

As I went through RFC 3797 several times, I understood the following.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

There are a few potential disadvantages of using a Publicly Verifiable
Nominations Committee (NomCom) Random Selection process, such as the one
outlined in RFC 3797. Some of these include:

Complexity: The process outlined in the RFC is quite complex and may be
difficult for some people to understand or implement.

Time-consuming: The process of selecting nominees through random selection
can be time-consuming, especially if there are a large number of potential
nominees.

*Limited pool of nominees: The random selection process may not yield a
diverse group of nominees, as it is based on chance rather than a
deliberate effort to seek out candidates from underrepresented groups.*
That is what I had highlighted.


Lack of accountability: Because the selection process is random, there is
no way to hold individuals or groups accountable for the nominees that are
chosen.

Limited transparency: It can be difficult for members of the community to
understand or verify the selection process, as it relies on complex
mathematical algorithms and cryptographic techniques.

Exclusion of certain people: Some individuals may be excluded from the
selection process if they are not able to provide the necessary information
or meet the requirements outlined in the RFC, which can be a limitation.

Any suggestions?

Harish Chowdhary


On Fri, 13 Jan, 2023, 9:28 pm Andrew McConachie, <
andrew.mcconachie at icann.org> wrote:

> Dear Harish,
>
> RFC 3797 is publicly verifiable. You can run the algorithm yourself with
> the information provided in Steve’s earlier email and verify the results
> yourself. If you are interested in past results the archives of this
> mailing list are available at: <
> https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/rssac-caucus/>
>
> RFC 3797 is string agnostic. Each choice in the lottery is assigned an
> index and that index is the value the algorithm uses. Thus, these questions
> you have about how a name’s ordering may impact results are
> inconsequential.
>
> The sources of randomness are identified before the lottery determines the
> winner. But the random numbers generated by these sources cannot be known
> at the time each potential choice is assigned an index. Because of this,
> there is no way anyone can pre-determine an outcome by assigning specific
> indices to specific persons. Because at the time of index assignment no one
> can know which indices will be chosen.
>
> I hope this information helps and if you have further questions about how
> RFC 3797 functions, feel free to reach out. I’m certainly not an expert,
> but I have read it a few times.
>
> Thanks,
> Andrew
>
> On 11 Jan 2023, at 15:12, Harish Chowdhary <intern3tgovernance at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Steve,
>
> Thank you very much for your response.
>
> *Please provide the following information to help us understand the
> process and fill any gaps in our knowledge.*
>
>    1. Please tell us what the results of the RSSAC CAUCUS IETF travel
>    support have been since the program's inception, as well as why these rules
>    were created, so we can determine whether this is a new process or a
>    replacement for an old one.
>    2. Also, please provide the results for the following combinations so
>    that we can see how the algorithm works when it selects the person with the
>    one name from the following options:
>
>
>    - FirstName LastName (Harish Chowdhary)
>    - LastName FirstName (Chowdhary Harish)
>    - Only the first name is used. (Harish)
>
>
> Multiple places state that guidelines are only for reference and are not
> binding. Here due to the limited pool of applicants who are applying; in
> most cases, the result would be the same/similar.
> *Non availability of the requested data would conclude the results are not
> valid.*
>
> I remember a very important discussion was started at IETF 100 in order to
> incorporate human perspectives into standards and protocols such as the RFC
> discussed here; it may not have any issues, but the implementation may have
> relied on similar inputs from a very small input domain.
>
> Most importantly, because only a small number of experts are
> participating, the lottery system should not preclude active participation.
> *The goal is to treat everyone as a person, not just a number in a
> lottery.*
>
> Thanks,
> Harish Chowdhary
>
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:39 PM Steve Sheng <steve.sheng at icann.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Harish,
>>
>>
>>
>>   Thanks for your email. I see two questions and let me respond to them
>> separately.
>>
>>
>>
>>   *Regarding your concern that the random selection always select the
>> alpha A first,*  I have double-checked the result using two
>> implementations of RFC 3797 and both yields the same responses. I have also
>> checked and confirmed that the randomness we use follows the guidelines
>> laid out in section 3 of RFC3797. Based on these, I concluded that we have
>> followed RFC 3797. I have also checked with other communities that use
>> RFC3797 and did not find evidence that it always selects the alpha A first.
>> Based on these, and unless proven otherwise, I conclude the selection is
>> valid.
>>
>>
>>
>> *  Regarding your question “**I hope travel support should be even and
>> given to member who never received it and based upon some rationale rather
>> than a lottery,”* this selection has been done as outlined in the IETF
>> Supported Travelers Funding Guidelines attached. The guidelines do not
>> preclude an RSSAC Caucus member from being considered for travel support
>> even if they received travel support in the past.
>>
>>
>>
>> I hope this helps. Let me know if you have more questions.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Harish Chowdhary <intern3tgovernance at gmail.com>
>> *Date: *Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 12:33 PM
>> *To: *Steve Sheng <steve.sheng at icann.org>
>> *Cc: *Ozan Sahin <ozan.sahin at icann.org>, RSSAC Caucus <
>> rssac-caucus at icann.org>
>> *Subject: *[Ext] Re: [RSSAC Caucus] RSSAC Caucus Travel Support for IETF
>> 116 Yokohama, Japan
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>>
>>
>> Please see results of IETF 104.
>>
>>
>>
>> Results
>>
>> Key String: 15.21.29.35.54.60./6.7.10.11.19.27.37./6739./
>>
>>
>>
>> 4. Daniel Migault
>>
>> 6. Anand Raje
>>
>> 11. Amir Qayyum
>>
>> 10. Alejandro Acosta
>>
>> 1. Robert Story
>>
>> 5. Ihtisham Khalid
>>
>> 9. Dr AbdulkarIm Oloyede
>>
>> 2. Ramanou BIAOU
>>
>> 12. MOHIT BATRA
>>
>> 3. George Russell Mundy
>>
>> 14. Anupam Agrawal
>>
>> 8. Shailesh Gupta
>>
>> 13. Rao Naveed Bin Rais
>>
>> 7. Harish Chowdhary
>>
>>
>>
>>   The funded travelers are:  Daniel Migault, Anand Raje, Amir Qayyum and Alejandro
>> Acosta
>>
>>
>>
>> Any suggestions please.
>>
>> I hope travel support should be even and given to memeber who never
>> recieved it and based upon some rationale rather than a lottery.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Harish Chowdhary
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 4 Jan, 2023, 9:32 pm Steve Sheng, <steve.sheng at icann.org> wrote:
>>
>> Dear RSSAC Caucus,
>>
>>
>>
>> Please see the result of the random selection.
>>
>>
>>
>> Source of Randomness:
>>     #1 Euro Millions Tuesday 3 January 2023: 3 10 20 21 29 45 46
>>     (https://www.euro-jackpot.net/en/euromillions [euro-jackpot.net]
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.euro-jackpot.net/en/euromillions__;!!PtGJab4!9mDotgBboJAnmpYunDz_PyhwSc5vp7UkbR5rj3jEzITkbbyI9bTrf0zD_7nuCL1rcOWWkBvVrH_8r533xO71vXF9h46eJkTjdSc$>
>> )
>>
>>
>>     #2 US Lucky for Life Tuesday 3 January 2023: 1 14 24 34 45 47
>> (https://www.luckyforlife.us/winning-numbers/ [luckyforlife.us]
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.luckyforlife.us/winning-numbers/__;!!PtGJab4!9mDotgBboJAnmpYunDz_PyhwSc5vp7UkbR5rj3jEzITkbbyI9bTrf0zD_7nuCL1rcOWWkBvVrH_8r533xO71vXF9h46e0J7GmJw$>
>> )
>>
>>
>>     #3 NASDAQ closing index (rounded to the nearest integer) on Tuesday 3
>> January 2023: 10387
>>     (https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/index/comp [nasdaq.com]
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/index/comp__;!!PtGJab4!9mDotgBboJAnmpYunDz_PyhwSc5vp7UkbR5rj3jEzITkbbyI9bTrf0zD_7nuCL1rcOWWkBvVrH_8r533xO71vXF9h46e5NdXnA8$>
>> )
>>
>>
>>
>>     Result:
>>
>> 5. Anand Raje
>>
>> 1. Rao Naveed Bin Rais
>>
>> 3. Hafiz Farooq
>>
>> 2. Harish Chowdhary
>>
>> 4. Mallory Knodel
>>
>>
>>
>> Thus, Anand Raje and Rao Naveed Bin Rais will receive funding of IETF
>> 116.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Steve Sheng <steve.sheng at icann.org>
>> *Date: *Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 9:49 AM
>> *To: *Ozan Sahin <ozan.sahin at icann.org>, "rssac-caucus at icann.org" <
>> rssac-caucus at icann.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [RSSAC Caucus] RSSAC Caucus Travel Support for IETF 116
>> Yokohama, Japan
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear RSSAC Caucus,
>>
>>
>>
>>   Sorry for the delay in handling this random selection. Here is a list
>> of RSSAC Caucus members to be entered into the random selection:
>>
>>
>>
>>    1. Rao Naveed Bin Rais
>>    2. Harish Chowdhary
>>    3. Hafiz Farooq
>>    4. Mallory Knodel
>>    5. Anand Raje
>>
>>
>>
>>   Number of Slots: 2
>>
>>
>>
>>   Source of Randomness:
>>     #1 Euro Millions Tuesday 3 January 2023
>>     (https://www.euro-jackpot.net/en/euromillions [euro-jackpot.net]
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.euro-jackpot.net/en/euromillions__;!!PtGJab4!9mDotgBboJAnmpYunDz_PyhwSc5vp7UkbR5rj3jEzITkbbyI9bTrf0zD_7nuCL1rcOWWkBvVrH_8r533xO71vXF9h46eJkTjdSc$>
>> )
>>
>>     #2 US Lucky for Life Tuesday 3 January 2023
>> (https://www.luckyforlife.us/winning-numbers/ [luckyforlife.us]
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.luckyforlife.us/winning-numbers/__;!!PtGJab4!9mDotgBboJAnmpYunDz_PyhwSc5vp7UkbR5rj3jEzITkbbyI9bTrf0zD_7nuCL1rcOWWkBvVrH_8r533xO71vXF9h46e0J7GmJw$>
>> )
>>
>>     #3 NASDAQ closing index (rounded to the nearest integer) on Tuesday 3
>> January 2023
>>     (https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/index/comp [nasdaq.com]
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/index/comp__;!!PtGJab4!9mDotgBboJAnmpYunDz_PyhwSc5vp7UkbR5rj3jEzITkbbyI9bTrf0zD_7nuCL1rcOWWkBvVrH_8r533xO71vXF9h46e5NdXnA8$>
>> )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> A Publicly Verifiable Random Selection Process will be conducted by Staff
>> on Wed 4 January 2023, using the RFC 3797 method. The results (as well as
>> other data) will be announced to the list on the same day, after which you
>> can verify the result yourself.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Steve Sheng
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *rssac-caucus <rssac-caucus-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Ozan
>> Sahin <ozan.sahin at icann.org>
>> *Date: *Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 3:37 PM
>> *To: *"rssac-caucus at icann.org" <rssac-caucus at icann.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [RSSAC Caucus] RSSAC Caucus Travel Support for IETF 116
>> Yokohama, Japan
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear RSSAC Caucus Members,
>>
>>
>>
>> We have received the following requests for travel support to IETF 116.
>>
>>    1. Rao Naveed Bin Rais
>>    2. Harish Chowdhary
>>    3. Hafiz Farooq
>>    4. Mallory Knodel
>>    5. Abdulkarim Oloyede
>>    6. Anand Raje
>>    7. Dessalegn Yehuala
>>
>>
>>
>> According to the RSSAC Caucus IETF Supported Travelers Funding
>> Guidelines, RSSAC Admin Committee is allocating two trip slots to the
>> following RSSAC Caucus members:
>>
>>    - Abdulkarim Oloyede
>>    - Dessalegn Yehuala
>>
>>
>>
>> For the remaining two slots, we will do a verifiable random selection as
>> specified by RFC 3797.
>>
>>
>>
>> A Publicly Verifiable Random Selection Process will be conducted by Staff
>> on Thursday 22 December 2022,  using the RFC 3797 method. The results (as
>> well as other data) will be announced to the list on the same day, after
>> which you can verify the result yourself.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Ozan Sahin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *rssac-caucus <rssac-caucus-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Ozan
>> Sahin <ozan.sahin at icann.org>
>> *Date: *23 November 2022 Wednesday 17:12
>> *To: *"rssac-caucus at icann.org" <rssac-caucus at icann.org>
>> *Subject: *[RSSAC Caucus] RSSAC Caucus Travel Support for IETF 116
>> Yokohama, Japan
>>
>>
>> Dear RSSAC Caucus members,
>>
>> RSSAC Admin Committee understands that ICANN organization may be sharing
>> new sponsered travel information and guidancefor ICANN community to attend
>> non-ICANN events in the next weeks. As a result, travel support to attend
>> even-numbered IETF meetings may be available once again. In order to not
>> miss the relevant notice periods, RSSAC Admin Committee would like to start
>> the selection process to identify sponsered RSSAC Caucus members to attend
>> the next IETF meeting.
>>
>>
>> IETF 116 will take place in Yokohama, Japan from 25 - 31 March 2023. Pending
>> the travel advice from ICANN organization, there may be travel support
>> for up to four (4) RSSAC Caucus Members to attend IETF 116 including
>> economy class airfare, accommodation, registration, and per diem.
>>
>> As you may remember, RSSAC approved guidelines for RSSAC Caucus members
>> requesting travel support to attend even-numbered IETF meetings in 2019.
>> Please see the approved guidelines attached. Depending on how many requests
>> we receive, the RSSAC Administrative Committee may need to make the
>> selection based on the selection criteria outlined in the guidelines.
>>
>> If you would like to apply and be considered for travel support, please
>> complete the following form by *Friday, **2 December 2022*: https://forms.gle/edQvwjYgVLzbgUSS9
>> [forms.gle]
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/forms.gle/edQvwjYgVLzbgUSS9__;!!PtGJab4!9m5qumXaTDkZtDfXDPP-zysIU68gEAg4fuv297qYkNvBGJLC1gDTvKZwpGg4qH_zumtMvOv4m378Srp6FTjbjSqi10w$>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>>
>> Ozan Sahin
>>
>> Policy Development Support Senior Specialist
>>
>> Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
>>
>>
>>
>> Mobile:             +90 533 641 0007
>>
>> Skype:              ozan.sahin.icann
>>
>> www.icann.org
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>
> --
>
>
> *Thanks,Harish Chowdhary,Technology Analyst*
>  www.indiaig.in [indiaig.in]
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.indiaig.in__;!!PtGJab4!-PuXK2kWCsgVSxGqaET2yan33hhb65BBPADsvDrrsNQUdKvS5DaAOHk2GvmmsfFzcaxWokMeMYG0Iz2EUv71uOUeY4nXVqvJ44f7l9U$>
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