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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=ES-AR link=blue vlink=purple style='zoom: 0%'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>From a Latin American point of view, I also support refunds, considering that the budget always are limited. Hector<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Héctor Ariel Manoff</span></b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><br><b>Vitale, Manoff & Feilbogen<br></b>Viamonte 1145 10º Piso<br>C1053ABW Buenos Aires<br>República Argentina<br>Te: (54-11) 4371-6100<br>Fax: (54-11) 4371-6365<br>E-mail: </span><span lang=ES style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#4F81BD'><a href="mailto:amanoff@vmf.com.ar"><span lang=ES-AR style='color:#4F81BD'>amanoff@vmf.com.ar</span></a></span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><br>Web: </span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#4F81BD'><a href="http://www.vmf.com.ar/"><span style='color:#4F81BD'>http://www.vmf.com.ar</span></a></span><span lang=ES style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>****************************************************************************************************************************************************<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Esta comunicación tiene como destinatario a la persona o empresa a la cual está dirigida y puede contener información confidencial y reservada. Si el lector de este mensaje no es el destinatario o sus empleados o representantes, deberá proceder a reenviar el presente a su remitente. La distribución, diseminación o copiado de este mensaje podría constituir violación a la ley. </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Gracias.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>This email and any files transmitted with it are intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone and return the original message to us at the above address. </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>****************************************************************************************************************************************************</span><span lang=ES style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=ES style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>De:</span></b><span lang=ES style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> SubPro-IRT [mailto:subpro-irt-bounces@icann.org] <b>En nombre de </b>Sam Lanfranco<br><b>Enviado el:</b> viernes, 14 de junio de 2024 06:23<br><b>Para:</b> Justine Chew<br><b>CC:</b> Rubens Kuhl via SubPro-IRT<br><b>Asunto:</b> Re: [SubPro-IRT] Application Fee FAQ<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>As an economist too prefer a refund to a credit, which only applies if an applcation is going forward.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I also support sealed bids. No strategic gaming. Applicants give it there best shot, and the envelopes are opened. No drama, full stop.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Sam Lanfranco<br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Internet Elder, Internet Ecologist, 416 816-2852<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Jun 13, 2024, at 1:25 p.m., Justine Chew <<a href="mailto:justine.chew.icann@gmail.com" target="_blank">justine.chew.icann@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Perhaps, give applicants a choice depending on their respective circumstances? Or to waive the refund as someone suggested earlier.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>Justine<br>---------<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, 13 Jun 2024, 16:48 Jeff Neuman, <<a href="mailto:jeff@jjnsolutions.com">jeff@jjnsolutions.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:Aptos;color:black'>Just to add to the notion of a "Credit" vs. "Refund". A significant number of applicants either withdraw their applications or be eliminated through contention, lack of success in the application process, advice, etc. A credit does no good for these applicants because they will have nothing to credit against. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:Aptos;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:Aptos;color:black'>I do not see a way around making this a refund as opposed to a credit.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:Aptos;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="m_6711655957347727450Signature"><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:Aptos;color:black'><img border=0 width=32 height=32 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:c194eb95-d749-4172-93ed-9474feec59e1"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="98%" align=center></div><div id="m_6711655957347727450divRplyFwdMsg"><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> SubPro-IRT <<a href="mailto:subpro-irt-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">subpro-irt-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of Christa Taylor <<a href="mailto:Christa@tldz.com" target="_blank">Christa@tldz.com</a>><br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 13, 2024 12:35 AM<br><b>To:</b> Rubens Kuhl <<a href="mailto:rubensk@nic.br" target="_blank">rubensk@nic.br</a>>; Next Round Policy Implementation <<a href="mailto:NextRound_PolicyImplementation@icann.org" target="_blank">NextRound_PolicyImplementation@icann.org</a>>; <a href="mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org" target="_blank">subpro-irt@icann.org</a> <<a href="mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org" target="_blank">subpro-irt@icann.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [SubPro-IRT] Application Fee FAQ</span> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA>Thank you Elisa and Lars,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-CA>I apologize for not being able to attend due to time zone differences. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-CA>I want to support the requests for more detailed costing information along with some concerns.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-CA>In November 2016, Work Track 1 was tasked with evaluating the accuracy of cost estimates and reviewing the methodology used to develop the cost model. However, after months of requests, ICANN was unable to provide any information on the costs and methodology used in the 2009 application fees. Consequently, we could not properly address the Implementation Guideline B regarding the concept of differing application fees for different applicants and the potential creation of new application types, which may have necessitated a new costing analysis based on recommended changes (section 4.2.17 at <a href="https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/58735931/Section%204.2.17.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1460741334000&api=v2" target="_blank">https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/58735931/Section%204.2.17.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1460741334000&api=v2</a> ).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-CA>Since we were unable to attain the information, the working group wanted to ensure the scenario would not occur in the future rounds and emphasized the need for detailed and transparent disclosure of fees and methodologies to the community. The Final Report reflects this:<o:p></o:p></span></p><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-CA>Top 15: Application Fees: “<i>The development of the application fee must be fully transparent, with all cost assumptions explained and documented</i>” (p. 66).<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-CA>Working Group Emphasis: <i>ICANN should be fully transparent about how the application fee is developed, explaining and documenting all cost assumptions (</i>p. 69).<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-CA>Summary of Outputs: “<i>The development of the application fee must be fully transparent, with all cost assumptions explained and documented</i>” (p. 249).<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><p><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-CA>Two additional points:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-CA>1. Application Fees and Deterrence: I understand wanting to be conservative approach to ensure costs are recovered however, this should be based on probabilities not extreme cases as provided with the 500 and 1,000 volume levels. Also, the scenarios presented suggest providing excess fees as a ‘credit’, but we recommended the option of a refund if the amount exceeded $1,000 (or another nominal amount) with a disbursement schedule based on milestones to avoid delays. This would ensure that applicants don't prepay their yearly ICANN fees, for an extended period, during a critical time when those funds could be utilized to launch and support the operation of their TLD(s).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-CA>2. The working group noted that only historical costs directly related to implementing the New gTLD Program should be part of the cost structure for determining application fees. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><i><span lang=EN-CA>“The Working Group believes, however, that for subsequent procedures the only historical costs that should be part of the cost structure in determining application fees are those actual costs directly related to the implementation of the New gTLD Program”.</span></i><span lang=EN-CA> (p. 65). "Org Shared Services" do not align with this, as they are “<i>not directly attributable to a program or project</i>”. Additionally, it would be helpful to determine whether the $70k per application in implementation fees also includes past shared services amounts and, if they do, the amount included within the $70k.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-CA>Without relevant details and transparency on the costs, it becomes difficult to understand the full picture, hinders analysis, and prevents the attainment of useful insights that can be utilized in future rounds and in the development of future policies.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-CA>Apologies for the length, it was supposed to be a short email! <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt'>Kind regards,</span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt'>Christa</span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> SubPro-IRT <<a href="mailto:subpro-irt-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">subpro-irt-bounces@icann.org</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rubens Kuhl via SubPro-IRT<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 12, 2024 8:00 PM<br><b>To:</b> Next Round Policy Implementation <<a href="mailto:NextRound_PolicyImplementation@icann.org" target="_blank">NextRound_PolicyImplementation@icann.org</a>>; <a href="mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org" target="_blank">subpro-irt@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [SubPro-IRT] Application Fee FAQ</span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p><span lang=EN-CA>Em 12 de jun. de 2024, à(s) 09:01, Next Round Policy Implementation <<a href="mailto:NextRound_PolicyImplementation@icann.org" target="_blank">NextRound_PolicyImplementation@icann.org</a>> escreveu:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt'>Dear IRT members, </span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt'>In preparation for <a href="https://community.icann.org/x/zIBAEw" target="_blank"><span style='color:#467886'>tomorrow's IRT meeting</span></a>, ICANN org has prepared the attached FAQ which aims to address the various questions that have been raised both in relation to the RSP fee as well as the gTLD evaluation fee</span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt'>.</span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt'>Best regards,</span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt'>Elisa</span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt'> </span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><p><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA>Some comments about the FAQ:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA>- In the RSP fee, it lacks a comparison to the USD 14k required for an unknown RSP to be evaluated for serving 2012 gTLDs. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA>- It’s not mentioned whether applicants will be allowed to commit to use an evaluated RSP or can only choose already evaluated ones<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA>- In item 3, it’s mentioned that TMCH fees are not included. In 2012, registries got their TMCH fees back after being initially charged, so in effect, there was no additional payment of TMCH fees beyond the application fee. Changing that is not supported by any SubPro recommendation. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA>- As mentioned by Seb during the session, some organizations might have challenges receiving the excess funding. So while it’s good to be the default to return the excess, giving applicants the option to not get that excess back solves for corner cases regarding tax or foreign exchange regulations. Applicants would only have to say they want it or not want it (no lingering). <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA>About the fee for joint venture review, if joint venture ends up playing a role in auctions, perhaps auction proceeds should pay for those. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA>About the fee for lingering applications, I support the idea. Currently there is an asymmetrical relationship between letting it linger (Cranberries song playing in the background) and the Org costs. The hard issue, though, is defining it, since there should be no prevention of the use of accountability mechanisms or limited appeal processes created by that cost, but that can’t also trigger an excessive use of such mechanisms only to avoid the lingering fee. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA>About the IDN Variant subsidy, agree with Edmon on changing its name, but I also add that this could be funded from fee leftovers (either from previous round or forecast of this round) or even Auctions leftovers. This would be aligned with guidelines to such expenditures, I believe. While this won’t change the application fee by any significant amount either way (circa 1%), this would simplify the fee determination and also could back ICANN claims to support multilingual development of the Internet. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA>Rubens<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>SubPro-IRT mailing list<br><a href="mailto:SubPro-IRT@icann.org" target="_blank">SubPro-IRT@icann.org</a><br><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/subpro-irt" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/subpro-irt</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the website Terms of Service (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><pre style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></pre><pre style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>SubPro-IRT mailing list<br>SubPro-IRT@icann.org<br><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/subpro-irt">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/subpro-irt</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></pre><pre><br>By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the website Terms of Service (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). 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