America/Winnipeg 2:00am or 3:00am (was Canada 2007)

Thu Apr 13 06:39:33 UTC 2006

Sorry to change the subject of the e-mail thread again.
Paul E. and I received some information from the folks at the National Research Council (NRC) in Ottawa regarding the Manitoba Official Time Act.
This is what we learned:

March 22/1967 - Official Time Act for Manitoba received assent.
I have not personally seen a copy of this act but my understanding (based on e-mail from Rob Douglas at the NRC) is that section 2 reads:
  "2 Throughout the province the official time which shall be used
   and observed shall be
   (a) except between two o'clock Central Standard Time in the morning of the
       last Sunday in April of each year and two o'clock Central Standard Time
       in the morning of the last Sunday in October next following, Central
       Standard Time; and
   (b) between two o'clock Central Standard Time in the morning of the
       last Sunday in April of each year and two o'clock Central Standard Time
       in the morning of the last Sunday in October next following,
       one hour in advance of Central Standard Time."
The wording explicitly indicates that the transition from daylight time to standard time should take place at 02:00 CST.
02:00 CST is equivalent to 03:00 CDT or 3:00 a.m. wall time.
A rather interesting bit of information which Rob noticed: the French version of Act was worded differently than the English version.
My French is poor, but here is a rough English translation of the French version of the Act:
 "the first Sunday of April at two in the morning and the last Sunday of October at the same time".
This would seem to imply daylight saving time ended at 02:00 CDT instead of 02:00 CST!
Apparently if there are differences in translation, the English version takes priority.
The English version of the Act does "not" reflect the current "end time" specified in the TZDATA rules from 1967 to 1986.  TZDATA needs to be updated accordingly.

March 27/1987 - assent of an amendment to the Official Time Act.
 http://www.canlii.org/mb/laws/sta/o-30/20050510/whole.html # English
 http://www.canlii.org/mb/legis/loi/o-30/20050510/tout.html # French
The only change in both the French and English versions of the amendment was the starting date (first Sunday in April instead of last Sunday of April).
The updated act reads:
   "2 Throughout the province the official time which shall be used
   and observed shall be
   (a) except between two o'clock Central Standard Time in the morning of the
       first Sunday in April of each year and two o'clock Central Standard Time
       in the morning of the last Sunday in October next following, Central
       Standard Time; and
   (b) between two o'clock Central Standard Time in the morning of the
       first Sunday in April of each year and two o'clock Central Standard Time
       in the morning of the last Sunday in October next following,
       one hour in advance of Central Standard Time."
The English version of this amendment "does" match Current TZDATA rules from 1987 onwards.

Dec 08/2005: - assent of another amendment to the Official Time Act:
 http://web2.gov.mb.ca/laws/statutes/ccsm/o030e.php # English
 http://web2.gov.mb.ca/laws/statutes/ccsm/o030e.php # French
The new wording is significantly different than the wording in the original act.  The French and English versions are finally in sync.
The amended act reads:
   "2(2)Subject to subsection (3), daylight saving time being the time one hour
    in advance of Central Standard Time must be used and observed throughout
    the province
      (a) in 2006, from 2:00 a.m. on the first Sunday in April until
          2:00 a.m. on the last Sunday in October; and
      (b) in 2007 and every year after that, from 2:00 a.m. on the
          second Sunday in March until 2:00 a.m. on the first Sunday in November.
The new wording does not specify "Standard Time" or "Daylight Saving Time".
I interpreted this to mean that daylight savings ends at 02:00 CDT.
Rob Douglas of the NRC agrees with this interpretation.
There is apparently some rational to this interpretation; the time of 2:00 a.m. must be treated as 02:00 "Official Time".  Official Time is defined in section 1 of the act.  Up until the point in time that the clocks move back, "Official Time" is "Daylight Saving Time" so 2:00 a.m. is 2:00 CDT.  

The NRC-INMS web page has been updated to reflect that daylight saving time in Manitoba now ends at 02:00 CDT.
 http://inms-ienm.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/en/faq_time_e.php#5
There is a note that says the start times have been in effect since 1988.  There is currently no note about end times; we may see a further update and/or a footnote in the near future.

Based on the information in the original Time Act and the two amendments, the transitions from daylight time to standard time specified in TZDATA need to be updated as follows:
1916-1966         No change to exiting rules.
1967-2005:        03:00 CDT
2006-END_OF_TIME: 02:00 CDT

Paul E. has suggested that the transition from daylight time to standard time in 1966 should be changed from 02:00 CDT to 03:00 CDT.  i.e. we should treat 1966 like 1967.
My opinion is that we should leave 1966 alone.  There was no legislation (that I know of) in 1966 and the rest of the Country (with some exceptions) had traditionally used 2:00 wall time for the switch.
I will leave this up to Paul to make a final decision on what he wants to do with 1966.

And one last note...
Two of the Manitoba government news releases which I referenced in my previous e-mail should be ignored; there is no legislation to back them up.  NRC is ignoring them so we should too!
Both news releases lead one to believe that daylight saving time in 2005 (and prior years) ended at 02:00 CDT instead of 02:00 CST.
For reference, here are the URLs.
 http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/press/top/2005/10/2005-10-17-02.html
 http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/press/top/2005/11/2005-11-02-06.html
We need to keep an eye on the Manitoba government next October and make sure that they don't publish more incorrect information.

-chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Walton 
Sent: April 5, 2006 12:05 PM
To: 'tz at elsie.nci.nih.gov'
Subject: RE: Canada 2007 (was America/Vancouver 2007)

I dug up some more news releases from the Manitoba Government.
It seems that the 3:00am transition from daylight savings to standard time was valid prior to 2005.

Oct 1997:
"This year, the official reversion to standard time occurs precisely at 3 a.m., Oct. 26, at which time clocks are turned back to 2 a.m."
 http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/press/top/1997/10/1997-10-14-01.html

Oct 1998:
"This year, the official reversion to standard time occurs precisely at 3 a.m., Oct. 25, at which time clocks are turned back to 2 a.m.
 http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/press/top/1998/10/1998-10-13-05.html

Oct 1999:
"This year, the official reversion to standard time occurs precisely at 3 a.m., Oct. 31, at which time clocks are turned back to 2 a.m."
 http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/press/top/1999/10/1999-10-18-02.html

Oct 2000:
"This year, the official reversion to standard time occurs precisely at 3 a.m., Oct. 29, at which time clocks are turned back to 2 a.m."
 http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/press/top/2000/10/2000-10-18-02.html

Oct 2001:
"This year, the official reversion to standard time occurs precisely at 3 a.m., Oct. 28, at which time clocks are turned back to 2 a.m."
 http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/press/top/2001/10/2001-10-17-01.html

Oct 2002:
"This year, the official reversion to standard time occurs precisely at 3 a.m., Oct. 27, at which time clocks are turned back to 2 a.m."
 http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/press/top/2002/10/2002-10-16-01.html

Oct 2003:
"This year, the official reversion to standard time occurs precisely at 3 a.m., Oct. 26, at which time clocks are turned back to 2 a.m."
 http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/press/top/2003/10/2003-10-15-03.html

Oct 2004:
"This year, the official change back to standard time will occur at precisely 3 a.m., Sunday, Oct. 31, at which time clocks are turned back to 2 a.m."
 http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/press/top/2004/10/2004-10-13-02.html

Oct 2005:
"This year, the precise time change occurs at 1:59 a.m. Sunday, Oct. 30 at which time clocks are set back to 1 a.m."
 http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/press/top/2005/10/2005-10-17-02.html

Nov 2005  # this new release is in reference to proposed legislation for 2007:
"Currently, Manitobans advance their clocks forward by one hour at 2 a.m. on the first Sunday in April and turn them back at 2 a.m. the last Sunday in October."
http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/press/top/2005/11/2005-11-02-06.html

I don't know if there was legislation to support the change in 2005.
The new releases above are not offical statues but they do come directly from the Manitoba government so I suppose we should trust them.

I think that the "Winn" rules need to be updated for 2005 and onwards.
The rules should use "2:00" instead of "2:00s".
Alternativily, America/Winnipeg could use the "Canada" rule from 2005 onwards.

I will send e-mail to INMS asking if they are aware of the change and if they have plans to update their web site.

-chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Walton
Sent: April 5, 2006 3:59 AM
To: tz at elsie.nci.nih.gov
Subject: Canada 2007 (was America/Vancouver 2007)

Sorry to change the subject line mid-thread but we seem to have jumped across the country.

Newfoundland has not made a decision on changes for 2007 yet.
Here is the latest press release which mentions the subject:
 http://www.releases.gov.nl.ca/releases/2006/mpa/0331n01.htm

I have not seen any announcements yet from Yukon, Northwest Territories, or Nunavut.
I don't know if we should expect the same type of official statutes and timely press releases that have come from the provincial governments.
However, if all three territories do decide to fall in line, NT_YK could be abandoned in favour of the "Canada" rule.

BC and Alberta could use the "Canada" rule, however, I won't lose sleep if we stay with Vanc and Edm.
In the end it makes no difference given that the rules are identical.

I think we need to take a close look at the "Winn" rules for Manitoba.
The current rule for the transition from daylight to standard time uses a time of "2:00s".
If I understand the syntax correctly this is the same as "3:00" or "3:00w".
The following three line note appears in the current northamerica tzdata file:

     "# From Paul Eggert (2000-10-02):
      # INMS (2000-09-12) says that, since 1988 at least, Manitoba switches from
      # DST at 03:00 local time.  For now, assume it started in 1987."

The INMS (Institute for National Measurement Standards) web site does indeed show that daylight savings in Manitoba ends at 03:00 CDT.  
  http://inms-ienm.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/en/faq_time_e.php#5
This "is" an official government web site but it is run by the federal government.
We have to remember that in Canada, daylight savings legislation is the responsibility of the provincial and territorial governments.

Here is a copy of the new official time act from the government of Manitoba web site.
  http://web2.gov.mb.ca/laws/statutes/ccsm/o030e.php
The act indicates that daylight savings ends at 2:00am.
To me, this implies 02:00 CDT and not 02:00 CST.  Would a lawyer interpret it differently?
I could not find a copy of the old act, so I don't know what it used to say.

I did find a news release from the Alberta government dated Oct 17/2005 which states:
"This year, the precise time change occurs at 1:59 a.m. Sunday, Oct. 30 at which time clocks are set back to 1 a.m."
 http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/press/top/2005/10/2005-10-17-02.html
The news release is not an official document but I beginning to wonder if the 03:00 is just a typo on the INMS web site.
Is there anybody from Manitoba on this mailing list?
Is there any information other than the INMS web site that indicates Manitoba ever switched the clock at 3:00am?

-chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Eggert [mailto:eggert at CS.UCLA.EDU]
Sent: Tue 4/4/2006 8:54 PM
To: tz at elsie.nci.nih.gov
Cc: Chris Walton
Subject: Re: America/Vancouver 2007

"Chris Walton" <Chris.Walton at telus.com> writes:

> http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/news_releases_2005-2009/2006AG0014-000330.h
> tm

Thanks for the heads-up.  I noticed this independently but your reference is better.

> If possible, can the appropriate changes be squeezed into 2006c?

Didn't quite make it, sorry.  It should be in the next version though.

> I think it makes sense to start using the existing "Canada" rules 
> which have already been updated instead of creating more "Vanc"
> rules.

Could be, since people are falling into line so quickly.  I guess we should do the same for Winn and Edm rules as well?  And NT_YK?

What about Newfoundland?