[tz] Change Request: Europe/Kiev to Europe/Kyiv

[John Hawkinson]

A bit of necroposting from my August 2020 email (quoted in full below):

> We should take the time to write up a good lengthy explanation of
> the issues ("boilerplate"), because this a really important issue of
> concern to many people in the world and the project has indeed
> thought about it pretty carefully. Dismissing the inquiries because
> they are repetitive makes it seem like we haven't, and that
> unnecessarily upsets [people].

Has anyone done any work on this, or given thought to it?

Serhii Trykoza (hopefully cc'd)'s github PR from the last hour (https://github.com/eggert/tz/pull/35, copied far below) raises the issue again.

Please note that the tz project does not use github PRs for issue tracking or commit management, so the PR will likely be closed in short order, which is not an indication of merit.

Speaking of boilerplates, I want to again suggest that if this is going to continue to be the project policy, there should be a github pull-request template that makes it clear pull requests are not considered appropriate.

Also, when you create a pull request on github now, it reports, "Be sure to review the contributing guidelines." with a hyperlink to https://github.com/eggert/tz/blob/228a93f759cd5f2b0cca9e05eeee3d7cdea07ebf/CONTRIBUTING.

It is not until the last paragraph of that file that any mention is made of pull requests ("[p]lease do not create [them]"), and the fact that the it's a plain text file (rather than CONTRIBUTING.md in markdown) makes it feel pretty unfriendly in the github world. Convertinf the file to markdown and making the "please don't use github pull requests" the first thing, rather than the last thing, would help to get the point across. (Indeed, perhaps that should be the *only* thing in the file that github links to.)

--
jhawk at alum.mit.edu
John Hawkinson


John Hawkinson <jhawk at alum.mit.edu> wrote on Sat, 15 Aug 2020
at 18:52:58 EDT in <20200815225258.GA62055 at alum.mit.edu>:

> Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2020 18:52:58 -0400
> From: John Hawkinson <jhawk at alum.mit.edu>
> To: Paul Eggert <eggert at cs.ucla.edu>, Victor Perov <vic.gald at gmail.com>
> Cc: Time zone mailing list <tz at iana.org>
> Subject: Re: [tz] Change Request: Europe/Kiev to Europe/Kyiv
> Message-ID: <20200815225258.GA62055 at alum.mit.edu>
> In-Reply-To: <eggert/tz/pull/27/c673663957 at github.com>
>  <cefc7f01-a3e9-f2a4-9ab9-5288147f994a at cs.ucla.edu>
> 
> I do not think we have handled this well; we have not given Victor Perov a good answer. Indeed, to some extent we've made it a "runaround." We can do better.
> 
> We should take the time to write up a good lengthy explanation of the issues ("boilerplate"), because this a really important issue of concern to many people in the world and the project has indeed thought about it pretty carefully. Dismissing the inquiries because they are repetitive makes it seem like we haven't, and that unnecessarily upsets peopl.
> 
> Victor Perev: I don't have time for a full write-up right now, but please consult the archives of the tz list (http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/ or perhaps https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amm.icann.org%2Fpipermail%2Ftz%2F+kyiv which returns 203 results). The tz project is very conservative in its judgment for when the predominant English spelling of a city has changed, and so far the project has judged that Kiev is still preferred. We discussed it when major English newspapers and style guides changed from Kiev to Kyiv last year (prompted by the US presidential impeachment, which lead to a lot of discussion about Kyiv in America), and we will probably continue to discuss it as time goes on. But we've thought about it and discussed it a lot. The answers you got don't explain that, and that means we have not done a good a job as we should have. Sorry about that.
> 
> In particular, I think Brian Inglis's answer was actually incorrect in a way that really matters ("Kiev is the correct English spelling").
> There are multiple correct English spellings. It used to be that Kiev was the only one, but Kyiv is gaining popularity more and more. 
> 
> 
> Paul Eggert <eggert at cs.ucla.edu> wrote on Sat, 15 Aug 2020
> at 18:19:08 EDT in <cefc7f01-a3e9-f2a4-9ab9-5288147f994a at cs.ucla.edu>:
> 
> > Thanks for bringing that to the mailing list (if I could shut off GitHub
> > pull requests I would).
> 
> Although you cannot do so, we can handle them a little bit better.
> Please see https://docs.github.com/en/github/building-a-strong-community/creating-a-pull-request-template-for-your-repositor
> 
> You can create a template that explains to a would-be pull request submitter than pull requests will be closed and the project uses the mailing list for development discussions. ("I understand that the tz project does not use pull requests on github, and that if I enter a pull request here, it will be closed and I will be directed to send email to tz at iana.org.")
> 
> For the particular case of regular, recurring issues, it may be worth while to keep one of #15, #26, and #27 open and mark the others as a duplicate of it, so that it is easier for newcomers to understand that this issue has been carefully considered and is not a simple oversight.
> 
> https://github.com/eggert/tz/pulls?q=kiev
> 
> Also, not to pick on Brian (again), but if the project policy is not to use github pull requests, it's not great to respond to pull requests on their substance, because it bifurcates the discussion and makes it seem like we actually do use pull requests ("except when we don't"). So what seems like a helpful thing may not be.
> 
> --
> jhawk at alum.mit.edu
> John Hawkinson

Serhii Trykoza <notifications at github.com> wrote on Mon,  6 Dec 2021
at 08:17:35 EST in <eggert/tz/pull/35 at github.com>:

> Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2021 05:17:35 -0800
> From: Serhii Trykoza <notifications at github.com>
> To: eggert/tz <tz at noreply.github.com>
> Cc: Subscribed <subscribed at noreply.github.com>
> Subject: [eggert/tz] KyivNotKiev (PR #35)
> Reply-To: eggert/tz
>  <reply+AAJWHPTK2DO6A5B34PZOC3N7XHXG7EVBNHHD7Z4WBI at reply.github.com>
> Message-ID: <eggert/tz/pull/35 at github.com>
> X-GitHub-Sender: strikoza
> 
> In September 2020, the English Wikipedia switched from using Kiev to Kyiv.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KyivNotKiev
> You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:
> 
>   https://github.com/eggert/tz/pull/35
> 
> -- Commit Summary --
> 
>   * KyivNotKiev - In September 2020, the English Wikipedia switched from using Kiev to Kyiv - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KyivNotKiev
> 
> -- File Changes --
> 
>     M .gitignore (2)
>     M europe (4)
>     M theory.html (2)
>     M zone.tab (2)
>     M zone1970.tab (2)
> 
> -- Patch Links --
> 
> https://github.com/eggert/tz/pull/35.patch
> https://github.com/eggert/tz/pull/35.diff
> 
> -- 
> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.
> Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub:
> https://github.com/eggert/tz/pull/35