[tz] Kyiv not Kiev

Petro Ord petro.ordyn at gmail.com
Tue Jun 28 11:50:31 UTC 2022


> I think the first mention on the mailing list that Europe/Kyiv might be
> preferable (but not a request for change) was this post:
> https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2007-May/014365.html

Considering the last name of the person who submitted the message -
McDonald - only confirms that Kyiv is accepted by English-speaking
people as common.

But despite that, I'm telling you about an error in the tz database,
not a typo or misspelling - an error.
In June 2019 the name Kyiv was officially adopted by the United States
Board on Geographic Names as the only correct one, which means, on the
contrary, that Kiev is not a correct one, therefore there is no
correct timezone for Kyiv.

The other question is how important is that error correction? - The
answer could have been seen in the community archive list, but the
number of such requests is, I assume, significantly suppressed due to
the unwillingness of the coordinator to add these requests to the
list.

>The ones that did, and had something new to add would have been let through.
The "new" variable here is how long the error persists and affects users.

вт, 28 июн. 2022 г. в 13:46, Ian Abbott <abbotti at mev.co.uk>:
>
> On 27/06/2022 21:32, Petro Ord wrote:
> > Theory and pragmatics of the tz code and data says to "Use mainstream
> > English spelling", popular is not quite a synonym to mainstream.
> > With that being said, Kyiv became mainstream in 1991.
>
> You may have considered it mainstream in 1991, but the English language
> media took its time catching up.
>
> I think the first mention on the mailing list that Europe/Kyiv might be
> preferable (but not a request for change) was this post:
>
> https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2007-May/014365.html
>
> Then we have to wait nearly another 7 years for a post from an actual
> Ukrainian (I presume their nationality from context) requesting a name
> change:
>
> https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2014-April/020837.html
>
> There has been a steady stream of requests on the list since then, but
> the position has always been that the most prevalent spelling in the
> English language should be used.  That has been reviewed by the TZ
> Coordinator (a.k.a. the maintainer, Paul Eggert) and others several
> times over the intervening years and was finally deemed to have flipped
> over in favour of the Kyiv spelling earlier this year.  It was always
> likely to happen sometime as the Kyiv spelling gradually gained in
> popularity.
>
> > How can you evaluate significance of the existing zone names, if the
> > requests and messages are neglected?
> > Look at the answer I've got from Paul Eggart:
> > "The list is being moderated to suppress spam by people who are
> > repeatedly lobbying for the spelling change. I forgot that, and cc'ed
> > to the list. I should have just replied to you privately."
> > That is quite intolerable to all Ukrainians and Ukraine-related issues.
>
> I'm sure it saves a lot of bandwidth discussing a barrage of requests
> for a change already that was already under consideration as part of an
> ongoing review process.  I'm sure most of those posters did not take the
> time to search through the archives of the mailing list for similar
> discussions.  The ones that did, and had something new to add would have
> been let through.
>
> > And again, who is in charge to define the change to be important? If
> > it is one person - what is the meaning of such discussions, if it is
> > the community - then why is the "repeated' request ignored?
>
> The answers to "who is in charge?" and general procedure questions is in
> RFC 6557 <https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6557.html>.
>
> --
> -=( Ian Abbott <abbotti at mev.co.uk> || MEV Ltd. is a company  )=-
> -=( registered in England & Wales.  Regd. number: 02862268.  )=-
> -=( Regd. addr.: S11 & 12 Building 67, Europa Business Park, )=-
> -=( Bird Hall Lane, STOCKPORT, SK3 0XA, UK. || www.mev.co.uk )=-


More information about the tz mailing list