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<p>Well said. I think this is on AUBMC for being too excited about
postponing DST. I also think they're the only org that actually
bothered and tried being compliant.<br>
</p>
<p> Of course, technically they were doing the right thing and it
was not totally foreseeable that it will be reverted but it should
be said that they're the only ones with this issue. No need to
inflict issues on everyone else because you were "responsible" and
agreed to being bullied by the government.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/28/23 14:43, Jad Baz wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CACEhUwJywDg4BVu60nCPp8CJvbjcN1Yu7EXBW6bjW1rCuLtprw@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">So this is quite a pickle</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I suggest we focus more on the impact than on
official vs non-official. I say this especially in light of
the minister's reason for keeping Winter time 3 more days:
that it's a time window for institutions to revert to DST in
case they changed</div>
<div dir="auto">Most IT systems did not implement any changes
before the weekend and those that might have considered
starting to change them Monday morning held off until the
cabinet meeting. And then subsequently decided not to bother
with implementing any changes for those 3 days</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Let's try to find out what systems changed and
what systems did not</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Are there any large institutions that have set
their IT systems on Winter time aside from AUBMC and the
aiport?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">We know that the central bank kept DST for all
transaction data (while employees clocked in on winter time)</div>
<div dir="auto">Following the central bank, all Lebanese banks
kept their systems on DST</div>
<div dir="auto">I haven't heard of a hospital other than AUBMC
that changed their local time to Winter time</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I feel that messing up all the country's
financial records is very risky</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">What's the risk involved in having 4 days of
historical inaccuracies in EPIC records and local flight times</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 13:57
Rany Hany via tz <<a href="mailto:tz@iana.org"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tz@iana.org</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>There is no consensus, even in the case of hospitals. For
example, Hôtel-Dieu (USJ) and Bellevue did not abide by
the change. <br>
</p>
<p>> Hôtel-Dieu de France and its hospital network have
decided to comply with DST tonight (25-26 March 2023).</p>
<p>Source: <a
href="https://www.usj.edu.lb/news.php?id=13195"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.usj.edu.lb/news.php?id=13195</a><br>
</p>
<div>On 3/28/23 13:43, Andrea Singletary via tz wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
Below my email is a message from my colleague
Paige Tummons, who works closely with hospitals
and clinics in Lebanon. They are of the position
that the TZDB update needs to reflect DST in
Lebanon<span> </span><span dir="ltr"
style="text-decoration:underline;font-size:inherit!important;text-decoration-color:rgb(0,134,240)!important">beginning
on the 30th.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
I understand that the goal of TZDB is to reflect
the reality on the ground, but the situation on
the ground is not as clear-cut as it may seem. Per
my colleagues in Lebanon, people ARE still
operating on Standard Time, most of them having
updated their phones to the Cairo time zone to
remain on UTC+2, with a plan to switch back on
March 30. In the absence of genuine consensus
among the Lebanese people, I argue that it's best
for 2023c to codify the government's official
position that DST<span> </span><span dir="ltr"
style="text-decoration:underline;font-size:inherit!important;text-decoration-color:rgb(0,134,240)!important">begins
on the 30th.</span> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
Best,<br>
Andrea</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
---</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
From Paige Tummons:</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span>I’m reaching out regarding your</span> <a
href="https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2023-March/032833.html"
style="text-decoration:underline"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span>request for
comments</span></a> <span>on the proposal to
revert back to 2023a instead of updating 2023c
to reflect the Lebanon DST change of</span> <u><span
style="font-family:"Roboto Light""><span
dir="ltr"
style="font-size:inherit!important;text-decoration-color:rgb(0,134,240)!important">30
March</span></span></u><span>. I’ve been
working closely with medical centers in Lebanon
to ensure that their healthcare systems are in
continuous legal compliance with the government
directives. We have been in close communication
with Lebanese government authorities who legally
consider the spring forward event to be</span> <u><span
style="font-family:"Roboto Light""><span
dir="ltr"
style="font-size:inherit!important;text-decoration-color:rgb(0,134,240)!important">on
30 March</span></span></u> <span>(with the
jump being</span> <u><span
style="font-family:"Roboto Light""><span
dir="ltr"
style="font-size:inherit!important;text-decoration-color:rgb(0,134,240)!important">from
11:59:59 PM on 29 March to 01:00:00 AM on 30
March</span></span></u><span>).</span> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span>We are strongly urging you to reflect this
update in the 2023c file, to avoid the published
tzdata file being in direct conflict with the
government directive of the spring DST event in
Lebanon happening<span> </span><u><span
dir="ltr"
style="font-size:inherit!important;text-decoration-color:rgb(0,134,240)!important">on
30 March</span></u>. The Prime Minister met
with the cabinet yesterday, and together they
agreed that Lebanon DST happens<span> </span><u>on
the 30<sup>th</sup>of March</u>. No government
authorities consider the 26 March 2023 event to
be the “true” DST time for Lebanon.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span>Thanks,<br>
Paige Tummons</span></p>
</div>
<div> </div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div
id="m_-8857434021668466414m_8089352380663143957divRplyFwdMsg"
dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b>
Saadallah Itani <a
href="mailto:sitani@aub.edu.lb" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><sitani@aub.edu.lb></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 28, 2023 5:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Eggert <a
href="mailto:eggert@cs.ucla.edu" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><eggert@cs.ucla.edu></a>;
Andrea Singletary <a
href="mailto:asinglet@epic.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><asinglet@epic.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Time zone mailing list <a
href="mailto:tz@iana.org" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><tz@iana.org></a>;
Maher Kassab <a href="mailto:maherk@aub.edu.lb"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><maherk@aub.edu.lb></a>;
Mohammad Abbass <a
href="mailto:mabbass@aub.edu.lb" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><mabbass@aub.edu.lb></a>;
Deborah Goldsmith <a
href="mailto:goldsmit@apple.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><goldsmit@apple.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [tz] Proposal to revert 2023b's
Lebanon data changes
<div> </div>
</font></div>
<br>
<br>
External Mail <br>
<br>
<br>
Dear Paul, <br>
<br>
Its very important to make sure you change on Github
the "Asia file- Lebanon <br>
section" and commit the Decision taken by the cabinet
of Ministers in <br>
Lebanon Government yesterday March 27 that states the
revert to DST will <br>
happen on March 30. As we saw on tz git code that you
commented the Rule <br>
and its ineffective for the new file 2023-c. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
"As quoted by Andrea from EPIC health systems: <br>
<br>
I highly recommend "recording the chaos in more detail
in the data" as the <br>
approach here. The Lebanese government has clarified
that for them, <br>
DST/summer time in 2023 begins on March 30, with the
clocks going from <br>
23:59:59 March 29 to 01:00:00 March 30. (No word on
what this means for next <br>
year, but I digress.) <br>
<br>
It's important that this be memorialized correctly
because the systems that <br>
depend on it include health systems that feed vital
records databases. A <br>
baby born in Beirut at 21:30 UTC on March 27 will be
born at 23:30 local <br>
Beirut time, and its birthday will be March 27. If we
simply revert to <br>
version 2023a, that would not sync up with the
government, so the baby's <br>
birthday might be recorded as 00:30 on March 28 in
health system records, <br>
which would not align with the government's opinion on
the baby's date of <br>
birth. <br>
<br>
Maybe it's just the historian in me, but I firmly
believe we need to <br>
memorialize this blip in the database. <br>
<br>
Thanks, <br>
Andrea <br>
" <br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message----- <br>
From: Paul Eggert <eggert at <a
href="http://cs.ucla.edu" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">cs.ucla.edu</a>>
<br>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 1:11 PM <br>
To: Time zone mailing list <tz at <a
href="http://iana.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">iana.org</a>>
<br>
Subject: [tz] Proposal to revert 2023b's Lebanon data
changes <br>
<br>
We need a new release soon to address the time zone
chaos in Lebanon. <br>
One option is to revert 2023b's data and go back to
2023a as I suggested <br>
earlier. Another is to record the chaos in more detail
in the data. The <br>
attached proposed patch (which I installed into the
developmental repository <br>
on GitHub) takes the former approach, as I expect the
latter would cause <br>
more problems than it would cure. This follows a
similar (although not <br>
identical) precedent in Rio de Janeiro in 1993. <br>
<br>
In short, the patch would make 2023c identical to
2023a except for comments, <br>
which do not count as part of the data. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
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