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The airlines simply adjusted their time one hour into the future to
"postpone DST." So in effect nothing changed relative to UTC.<br>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/28/23 18:53, Andrea Singletary
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">What did the airlines do? Historically, the
TZDB has taken a lot of its info from the IATA Standard
Schedules Information Manual. It’s worth considering that as
we attempt to reconcile this.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Rany Hany
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rany_hany@riseup.net"><rany_hany@riseup.net></a> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 28, 2023 7:24 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jad Baz <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jadbaz@gmail.com"><jadbaz@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Time zone mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tz@iana.org"><tz@iana.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [tz] Proposal to revert 2023b's
Lebanon data changes<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Well said. I think this is on AUBMC for being too excited
about postponing DST. I also think they're the only org that
actually bothered and tried being compliant.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Of course, technically they were doing the right thing and it
was not totally foreseeable that it will be reverted but it
should be said that they're the only ones with this issue. No
need to inflict issues on everyone else because you were
"responsible" and agreed to being bullied by the government.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 3/28/23 14:43, Jad Baz wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">So this is quite a pickle<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I suggest we focus more on the impact
than on official vs non-official. I say this especially
in light of the minister's reason for keeping Winter
time 3 more days: that it's a time window for
institutions to revert to DST in case they changed<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Most IT systems did not implement any
changes before the weekend and those that might have
considered starting to change them Monday morning held
off until the cabinet meeting. And then subsequently
decided not to bother with implementing any changes for
those 3 days<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Let's try to find out what systems
changed and what systems did not<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Are there any large institutions that
have set their IT systems on Winter time aside from
AUBMC and the aiport?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We know that the central bank kept
DST for all transaction data (while employees clocked in
on winter time)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Following the central bank, all
Lebanese banks kept their systems on DST<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I haven't heard of a hospital other
than AUBMC that changed their local time to Winter time<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I feel that messing up all the
country's financial records is very risky<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">What's the risk involved in having 4
days of historical inaccuracies in EPIC records and
local flight times<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 13:57 Rany Hany
via tz <<a href="mailto:tz@iana.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tz@iana.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<div>
<p>There is no consensus, even in the case of hospitals.
For example, Hôtel-Dieu (USJ) and Bellevue did not
abide by the change.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>> Hôtel-Dieu de France and its hospital network
have decided to comply with DST tonight (25-26 March
2023).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Source: <a
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.usj.edu.lb/news.php?id=13195__;!!BJMh1g!_tmD-94p_mY-w8Tlt_j2__Ybjmrxyw0rfsuOBZxNHKyBnSHoeNUsHlGCkYBlcR_-qaImhQp59hBKhj9u$"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
https://www.usj.edu.lb/news.php?id=13195</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 3/28/23 13:43, Andrea
Singletary via tz wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Below my email is a message
from my colleague Paige Tummons, who works
closely with hospitals and clinics in Lebanon.
They are of the position that the TZDB update
needs to reflect DST in Lebanon
<u>beginning on the 30th.</u><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I understand that the goal
of TZDB is to reflect the reality on the
ground, but the situation on the ground is not
as clear-cut as it may seem. Per my colleagues
in Lebanon, people ARE still operating on
Standard Time, most of them having updated
their phones to the Cairo time zone to remain
on UTC+2, with a plan to switch back on March
30. In the absence of genuine consensus among
the Lebanese people, I argue that it's best
for 2023c to codify the government's official
position that DST
<u>begins on the 30th.</u> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best,<br>
Andrea<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">---<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">From Paige Tummons:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m reaching out regarding
your <a
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2023-March/032833.html__;!!BJMh1g!_tmD-94p_mY-w8Tlt_j2__Ybjmrxyw0rfsuOBZxNHKyBnSHoeNUsHlGCkYBlcR_-qaImhQp59gEb7iHN$"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
request for comments</a> on the proposal to
revert back to 2023a instead of updating 2023c
to reflect the Lebanon DST change of
<u><span style="font-family:"Roboto
Light"">30 March</span></u>. I’ve
been working closely with medical centers in
Lebanon to ensure that their healthcare
systems are in continuous legal compliance
with the government directives. We have been
in close communication with Lebanese
government authorities who legally consider
the spring forward event to be
<u><span style="font-family:"Roboto
Light"">on 30 March</span></u> (with
the jump being
<u><span style="font-family:"Roboto
Light"">from 11:59:59 PM on 29 March
to 01:00:00 AM on 30 March</span></u>).
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We are strongly urging you
to reflect this update in the 2023c file, to
avoid the published tzdata file being in
direct conflict with the government directive
of the spring DST event in Lebanon happening
<u>on 30 March</u>. The Prime Minister met
with the cabinet yesterday, and together they
agreed that Lebanon DST happens
<u>on the 30<sup>th</sup>of March</u>. No
government authorities consider the 26 March
2023 event to be the “true” DST time for
Lebanon.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<br>
Paige Tummons<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center">
<hr width="98%" size="2" align="center">
</div>
<div
id="m_-8857434021668466414m_8089352380663143957divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Saadallah
Itani <a href="mailto:sitani@aub.edu.lb"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
<sitani@aub.edu.lb></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 28, 2023 5:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Eggert <a
href="mailto:eggert@cs.ucla.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><eggert@cs.ucla.edu></a>;
Andrea Singletary
<a href="mailto:asinglet@epic.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><asinglet@epic.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Time zone mailing list <a
href="mailto:tz@iana.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><tz@iana.org></a>;
Maher Kassab
<a href="mailto:maherk@aub.edu.lb"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><maherk@aub.edu.lb></a>;
Mohammad Abbass
<a href="mailto:mabbass@aub.edu.lb"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><mabbass@aub.edu.lb></a>;
Deborah Goldsmith
<a href="mailto:goldsmit@apple.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><goldsmit@apple.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [tz] Proposal to revert
2023b's Lebanon data changes <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
External Mail <br>
<br>
<br>
Dear Paul, <br>
<br>
Its very important to make sure you change on
Github the "Asia file- Lebanon <br>
section" and commit the Decision taken by the
cabinet of Ministers in <br>
Lebanon Government yesterday March 27 that
states the revert to DST will <br>
happen on March 30. As we saw on tz git code
that you commented the Rule <br>
and its ineffective for the new file 2023-c. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
"As quoted by Andrea from EPIC health systems: <br>
<br>
I highly recommend "recording the chaos in more
detail in the data" as the <br>
approach here. The Lebanese government has
clarified that for them, <br>
DST/summer time in 2023 begins on March 30, with
the clocks going from <br>
23:59:59 March 29 to 01:00:00 March 30. (No word
on what this means for next <br>
year, but I digress.) <br>
<br>
It's important that this be memorialized
correctly because the systems that <br>
depend on it include health systems that feed
vital records databases. A <br>
baby born in Beirut at 21:30 UTC on March 27
will be born at 23:30 local <br>
Beirut time, and its birthday will be March 27.
If we simply revert to <br>
version 2023a, that would not sync up with the
government, so the baby's <br>
birthday might be recorded as 00:30 on March 28
in health system records, <br>
which would not align with the government's
opinion on the baby's date of <br>
birth. <br>
<br>
Maybe it's just the historian in me, but I
firmly believe we need to <br>
memorialize this blip in the database. <br>
<br>
Thanks, <br>
Andrea <br>
" <br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message----- <br>
From: Paul Eggert <eggert at <a
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/cs.ucla.edu__;!!BJMh1g!_tmD-94p_mY-w8Tlt_j2__Ybjmrxyw0rfsuOBZxNHKyBnSHoeNUsHlGCkYBlcR_-qaImhQp59mMckfPt$"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
cs.ucla.edu</a>> <br>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 1:11 PM <br>
To: Time zone mailing list <tz at <a
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/iana.org__;!!BJMh1g!_tmD-94p_mY-w8Tlt_j2__Ybjmrxyw0rfsuOBZxNHKyBnSHoeNUsHlGCkYBlcR_-qaImhQp59neaJGY-$"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
iana.org</a>> <br>
Subject: [tz] Proposal to revert 2023b's Lebanon
data changes <br>
<br>
We need a new release soon to address the time
zone chaos in Lebanon. <br>
One option is to revert 2023b's data and go back
to 2023a as I suggested <br>
earlier. Another is to record the chaos in more
detail in the data. The <br>
attached proposed patch (which I installed into
the developmental repository <br>
on GitHub) takes the former approach, as I
expect the latter would cause <br>
more problems than it would cure. This follows a
similar (although not <br>
identical) precedent in Rio de Janeiro in 1993.
<br>
<br>
In short, the patch would make 2023c identical
to 2023a except for comments, <br>
which do not count as part of the data. <o:p></o:p></p>
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