<div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">So this is quite a pickle</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I suggest we focus more on the impact than on official vs non-official. I say this especially in light of the minister's reason for keeping Winter time 3 more days: that it's a time window for institutions to revert to DST in case they changed</div><div dir="auto">Most IT systems did not implement any changes before the weekend and those that might have considered starting to change them Monday morning held off until the cabinet meeting. And then subsequently decided not to bother with implementing any changes for those 3 days</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Let's try to find out what systems changed and what systems did not</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Are there any large institutions that have set their IT systems on Winter time aside from AUBMC and the aiport?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">We know that the central bank kept DST for all transaction data (while employees clocked in on winter time)</div><div dir="auto">Following the central bank, all Lebanese banks kept their systems on DST</div><div dir="auto">I haven't heard of a hospital other than AUBMC that changed their local time to Winter time</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I feel that messing up all the country's financial records is very risky</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">What's the risk involved in having 4 days of historical inaccuracies in EPIC records and local flight times</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 13:57 Rany Hany via tz <<a href="mailto:tz@iana.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">tz@iana.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>There is no consensus, even in the case of hospitals. For
example, Hôtel-Dieu (USJ) and Bellevue did not abide by the
change. <br>
</p>
<p>> Hôtel-Dieu de France and its hospital network have decided
to comply with DST tonight (25-26 March 2023).</p>
<p>Source: <a href="https://www.usj.edu.lb/news.php?id=13195" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.usj.edu.lb/news.php?id=13195</a><br>
</p>
<div>On 3/28/23 13:43, Andrea Singletary via
tz wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
Below my email is a message from my colleague Paige
Tummons, who works closely with hospitals and clinics in
Lebanon. They are of the position that the TZDB update
needs to reflect DST in Lebanon<span> </span><span dir="ltr" style="text-decoration:underline;font-size:inherit!important;text-decoration-color:rgb(0,134,240)!important">beginning on the 30th.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
I understand that the goal of TZDB is to reflect the
reality on the ground, but the situation on the ground is
not as clear-cut as it may seem. Per my colleagues in
Lebanon, people ARE still operating on Standard Time, most
of them having updated their phones to the Cairo time zone
to remain on UTC+2, with a plan to switch back on March
30. In the absence of genuine consensus among the Lebanese
people, I argue that it's best for 2023c to codify the
government's official position that DST<span> </span><span dir="ltr" style="text-decoration:underline;font-size:inherit!important;text-decoration-color:rgb(0,134,240)!important">begins on the 30th.</span> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
Best,<br>
Andrea</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
---</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
From Paige Tummons:</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span>I’m reaching out regarding
your</span> <a href="https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2023-March/032833.html" style="text-decoration:underline" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"><span>request for comments</span></a> <span>on the proposal to revert
back to 2023a instead of updating 2023c to reflect the
Lebanon DST change of</span> <u><span style="font-family:"Roboto Light""><span dir="ltr" style="font-size:inherit!important;text-decoration-color:rgb(0,134,240)!important">30
March</span></span></u><span>. I’ve been working closely
with medical centers in Lebanon to ensure that their
healthcare systems are in continuous legal compliance
with the government directives. We have been in close
communication with Lebanese government authorities who
legally consider the spring forward event to be</span> <u><span style="font-family:"Roboto Light""><span dir="ltr" style="font-size:inherit!important;text-decoration-color:rgb(0,134,240)!important">on
30 March</span></span></u> <span>(with the jump being</span> <u><span style="font-family:"Roboto Light""><span dir="ltr" style="font-size:inherit!important;text-decoration-color:rgb(0,134,240)!important">from
11:59:59 PM on 29 March to 01:00:00 AM on 30 March</span></span></u><span>).</span> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span>We are strongly urging you
to reflect this update in the 2023c file, to avoid the
published tzdata file being in direct conflict with the
government directive of the spring DST event in Lebanon
happening<span> </span><u><span dir="ltr" style="font-size:inherit!important;text-decoration-color:rgb(0,134,240)!important">on
30 March</span></u>. The Prime Minister met with the
cabinet yesterday, and together they agreed that Lebanon
DST happens<span> </span><u>on
the 30<sup>th</sup>of March</u>. No government
authorities consider the 26 March 2023 event to be the
“true” DST time for Lebanon.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span>Thanks,<br>
Paige Tummons</span></p>
</div>
<div> </div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_-8857434021668466414m_8089352380663143957divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri,
sans-serif"><b>From:</b> Saadallah Itani
<a href="mailto:sitani@aub.edu.lb" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"><sitani@aub.edu.lb></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 28, 2023 5:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Eggert <a href="mailto:eggert@cs.ucla.edu" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"><eggert@cs.ucla.edu></a>; Andrea
Singletary <a href="mailto:asinglet@epic.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"><asinglet@epic.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Time zone mailing list <a href="mailto:tz@iana.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"><tz@iana.org></a>;
Maher Kassab <a href="mailto:maherk@aub.edu.lb" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"><maherk@aub.edu.lb></a>; Mohammad Abbass
<a href="mailto:mabbass@aub.edu.lb" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"><mabbass@aub.edu.lb></a>; Deborah Goldsmith
<a href="mailto:goldsmit@apple.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"><goldsmit@apple.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [tz] Proposal to revert 2023b's Lebanon
data changes
<div> </div>
</font></div>
<br>
<br>
External Mail <br>
<br>
<br>
Dear Paul, <br>
<br>
Its very important to make sure you change on Github the "Asia
file- Lebanon <br>
section" and commit the Decision taken by the cabinet of
Ministers in <br>
Lebanon Government yesterday March 27 that states the revert
to DST will <br>
happen on March 30. As we saw on tz git code that you
commented the Rule <br>
and its ineffective for the new file 2023-c. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
"As quoted by Andrea from EPIC health systems: <br>
<br>
I highly recommend "recording the chaos in more detail in the
data" as the <br>
approach here. The Lebanese government has clarified that for
them, <br>
DST/summer time in 2023 begins on March 30, with the clocks
going from <br>
23:59:59 March 29 to 01:00:00 March 30. (No word on what this
means for next <br>
year, but I digress.) <br>
<br>
It's important that this be memorialized correctly because the
systems that <br>
depend on it include health systems that feed vital records
databases. A <br>
baby born in Beirut at 21:30 UTC on March 27 will be born at
23:30 local <br>
Beirut time, and its birthday will be March 27. If we simply
revert to <br>
version 2023a, that would not sync up with the government, so
the baby's <br>
birthday might be recorded as 00:30 on March 28 in health
system records, <br>
which would not align with the government's opinion on the
baby's date of <br>
birth. <br>
<br>
Maybe it's just the historian in me, but I firmly believe we
need to <br>
memorialize this blip in the database. <br>
<br>
Thanks, <br>
Andrea <br>
" <br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message----- <br>
From: Paul Eggert <eggert at <a href="http://cs.ucla.edu" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">cs.ucla.edu</a>> <br>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 1:11 PM <br>
To: Time zone mailing list <tz at <a href="http://iana.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">iana.org</a>> <br>
Subject: [tz] Proposal to revert 2023b's Lebanon data changes
<br>
<br>
We need a new release soon to address the time zone chaos in
Lebanon. <br>
One option is to revert 2023b's data and go back to 2023a as I
suggested <br>
earlier. Another is to record the chaos in more detail in the
data. The <br>
attached proposed patch (which I installed into the
developmental repository <br>
on GitHub) takes the former approach, as I expect the latter
would cause <br>
more problems than it would cure. This follows a similar
(although not <br>
identical) precedent in Rio de Janeiro in 1993. <br>
<br>
In short, the patch would make 2023c identical to 2023a except
for comments, <br>
which do not count as part of the data. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote></div>