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Maybe I should have been clearer. If MEA stated that they will land
at 2PM EEST, they just pushed it by an hour to instead be 3PM EET.<br>
<p>Hope that clears it up.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/28/23 18:55, Rany Hany via tz
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:8ff5966c-6317-bb0e-7513-f507948b514d@riseup.net">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
The airlines simply adjusted their time one hour into the future
to "postpone DST." So in effect nothing changed relative to UTC.<br>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/28/23 18:53, Andrea Singletary
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CH2PR17MB370121E94BE6F45188D2FD2DA5889@CH2PR17MB3701.namprd17.prod.outlook.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal">What did the airlines do? Historically,
the TZDB has taken a lot of its info from the IATA Standard
Schedules Information Manual. It’s worth considering that as
we attempt to reconcile this.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Rany Hany <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:rany_hany@riseup.net"
moz-do-not-send="true"><rany_hany@riseup.net></a>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 28, 2023 7:24 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jad Baz <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:jadbaz@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><jadbaz@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Time zone mailing list <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:tz@iana.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><tz@iana.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [tz] Proposal to revert 2023b's
Lebanon data changes<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Well said. I think this is on AUBMC for being too excited
about postponing DST. I also think they're the only org that
actually bothered and tried being compliant.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Of course, technically they were doing the right thing and
it was not totally foreseeable that it will be reverted but
it should be said that they're the only ones with this
issue. No need to inflict issues on everyone else because
you were "responsible" and agreed to being bullied by the
government.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 3/28/23 14:43, Jad Baz wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">So this is quite a pickle<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I suggest we focus more on the
impact than on official vs non-official. I say this
especially in light of the minister's reason for
keeping Winter time 3 more days: that it's a time
window for institutions to revert to DST in case they
changed<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Most IT systems did not implement
any changes before the weekend and those that might
have considered starting to change them Monday morning
held off until the cabinet meeting. And then
subsequently decided not to bother with implementing
any changes for those 3 days<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Let's try to find out what systems
changed and what systems did not<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Are there any large institutions
that have set their IT systems on Winter time aside
from AUBMC and the aiport?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We know that the central bank kept
DST for all transaction data (while employees clocked
in on winter time)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Following the central bank, all
Lebanese banks kept their systems on DST<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I haven't heard of a hospital other
than AUBMC that changed their local time to Winter
time<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I feel that messing up all the
country's financial records is very risky<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">What's the risk involved in having
4 days of historical inaccuracies in EPIC records and
local flight times<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 13:57 Rany
Hany via tz <<a href="mailto:tz@iana.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tz@iana.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<div>
<p>There is no consensus, even in the case of
hospitals. For example, Hôtel-Dieu (USJ) and
Bellevue did not abide by the change. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>> Hôtel-Dieu de France and its hospital network
have decided to comply with DST tonight (25-26 March
2023).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Source: <a
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.usj.edu.lb/news.php?id=13195__;!!BJMh1g!_tmD-94p_mY-w8Tlt_j2__Ybjmrxyw0rfsuOBZxNHKyBnSHoeNUsHlGCkYBlcR_-qaImhQp59hBKhj9u$"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
https://www.usj.edu.lb/news.php?id=13195</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 3/28/23 13:43, Andrea
Singletary via tz wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Below my email is a
message from my colleague Paige Tummons, who
works closely with hospitals and clinics in
Lebanon. They are of the position that the
TZDB update needs to reflect DST in Lebanon
<u>beginning on the 30th.</u><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I understand that the
goal of TZDB is to reflect the reality on
the ground, but the situation on the ground
is not as clear-cut as it may seem. Per my
colleagues in Lebanon, people ARE still
operating on Standard Time, most of them
having updated their phones to the Cairo
time zone to remain on UTC+2, with a plan to
switch back on March 30. In the absence of
genuine consensus among the Lebanese people,
I argue that it's best for 2023c to codify
the government's official position that DST
<u>begins on the 30th.</u> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best,<br>
Andrea<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">---<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">From Paige Tummons:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m reaching out
regarding your <a
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2023-March/032833.html__;!!BJMh1g!_tmD-94p_mY-w8Tlt_j2__Ybjmrxyw0rfsuOBZxNHKyBnSHoeNUsHlGCkYBlcR_-qaImhQp59gEb7iHN$"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
request for comments</a> on the proposal
to revert back to 2023a instead of updating
2023c to reflect the Lebanon DST change of <u><span
style="font-family:"Roboto
Light"">30 March</span></u>. I’ve
been working closely with medical centers in
Lebanon to ensure that their healthcare
systems are in continuous legal compliance
with the government directives. We have been
in close communication with Lebanese
government authorities who legally consider
the spring forward event to be <u><span
style="font-family:"Roboto
Light"">on 30 March</span></u>
(with the jump being <u><span
style="font-family:"Roboto
Light"">from 11:59:59 PM on 29
March to 01:00:00 AM on 30 March</span></u>).
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We are strongly urging
you to reflect this update in the 2023c
file, to avoid the published tzdata file
being in direct conflict with the government
directive of the spring DST event in Lebanon
happening <u>on 30 March</u>. The Prime
Minister met with the cabinet yesterday, and
together they agreed that Lebanon DST
happens <u>on the 30<sup>th</sup>of March</u>.
No government authorities consider the 26
March 2023 event to be the “true” DST time
for Lebanon.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<br>
Paige Tummons<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center">
<hr width="98%" size="2" align="center"> </div>
<div
id="m_-8857434021668466414m_8089352380663143957divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Saadallah
Itani <a href="mailto:sitani@aub.edu.lb"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
<sitani@aub.edu.lb></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 28, 2023 5:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Eggert <a
href="mailto:eggert@cs.ucla.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><eggert@cs.ucla.edu></a>;
Andrea Singletary <a
href="mailto:asinglet@epic.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><asinglet@epic.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Time zone mailing list <a
href="mailto:tz@iana.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><tz@iana.org></a>;
Maher Kassab <a
href="mailto:maherk@aub.edu.lb"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><maherk@aub.edu.lb></a>;
Mohammad Abbass <a
href="mailto:mabbass@aub.edu.lb"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><mabbass@aub.edu.lb></a>;
Deborah Goldsmith <a
href="mailto:goldsmit@apple.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><goldsmit@apple.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [tz] Proposal to revert
2023b's Lebanon data changes <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
External Mail <br>
<br>
<br>
Dear Paul, <br>
<br>
Its very important to make sure you change on
Github the "Asia file- Lebanon <br>
section" and commit the Decision taken by the
cabinet of Ministers in <br>
Lebanon Government yesterday March 27 that
states the revert to DST will <br>
happen on March 30. As we saw on tz git code
that you commented the Rule <br>
and its ineffective for the new file 2023-c. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
"As quoted by Andrea from EPIC health systems:
<br>
<br>
I highly recommend "recording the chaos in
more detail in the data" as the <br>
approach here. The Lebanese government has
clarified that for them, <br>
DST/summer time in 2023 begins on March 30,
with the clocks going from <br>
23:59:59 March 29 to 01:00:00 March 30. (No
word on what this means for next <br>
year, but I digress.) <br>
<br>
It's important that this be memorialized
correctly because the systems that <br>
depend on it include health systems that feed
vital records databases. A <br>
baby born in Beirut at 21:30 UTC on March 27
will be born at 23:30 local <br>
Beirut time, and its birthday will be March
27. If we simply revert to <br>
version 2023a, that would not sync up with the
government, so the baby's <br>
birthday might be recorded as 00:30 on March
28 in health system records, <br>
which would not align with the government's
opinion on the baby's date of <br>
birth. <br>
<br>
Maybe it's just the historian in me, but I
firmly believe we need to <br>
memorialize this blip in the database. <br>
<br>
Thanks, <br>
Andrea <br>
" <br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message----- <br>
From: Paul Eggert <eggert at <a
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/cs.ucla.edu__;!!BJMh1g!_tmD-94p_mY-w8Tlt_j2__Ybjmrxyw0rfsuOBZxNHKyBnSHoeNUsHlGCkYBlcR_-qaImhQp59mMckfPt$"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
cs.ucla.edu</a>> <br>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2023 1:11 PM <br>
To: Time zone mailing list <tz at <a
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/iana.org__;!!BJMh1g!_tmD-94p_mY-w8Tlt_j2__Ybjmrxyw0rfsuOBZxNHKyBnSHoeNUsHlGCkYBlcR_-qaImhQp59neaJGY-$"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
iana.org</a>> <br>
Subject: [tz] Proposal to revert 2023b's
Lebanon data changes <br>
<br>
We need a new release soon to address the time
zone chaos in Lebanon. <br>
One option is to revert 2023b's data and go
back to 2023a as I suggested <br>
earlier. Another is to record the chaos in
more detail in the data. The <br>
attached proposed patch (which I installed
into the developmental repository <br>
on GitHub) takes the former approach, as I
expect the latter would cause <br>
more problems than it would cure. This follows
a similar (although not <br>
identical) precedent in Rio de Janeiro in
1993. <br>
<br>
In short, the patch would make 2023c identical
to 2023a except for comments, <br>
which do not count as part of the data. <o:p></o:p></p>
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