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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">As John said, people don’t use variants equivalently.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">A clear definition of variants does exist. It’s not exactly one sentence long, but it does exist
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Apple Color Emoji";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">😉</span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> What does not exist is agreement that users want to use all variants equivalently. There is rough agreement
that users should <i>have the right</i> to use all variants equivalently, but that’s very different from an agreement that users
<i>want</i> to do it or <i>must</i> do it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Let me give a couple of examples of how users want to use variants differently:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">For historical reasons, old web browsers write a few names incorrectly on-screen, but this was fixed years ago and current versions
do the right thing. If your name is affected, you may want a unique right to the misspelled name in the DNS, so that no one else can register it and use it for an impersonation attack. You use only the correct form, but reserve the right to the old, incorrect
form.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Suppose that you have both
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"MS Gothic";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">滙豐</span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> and
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"MS Gothic";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">匯豐</span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">, which many people consider to be the same and other people consider different. People do not agree on which
form is the correct one. (I haven’t checked whether they are variants in any of the current IDN TLDs, but they are the kind of thing that might reasonably be, so please allow it as an example.) In that case, one of the ways you might want to use two variant
domains is to put a web site on each and use the name of that domain on that site. If you do that, you have two independent and (slightly) different web sites.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Arnt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">UA-Tech <ua-tech-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Hervé Hounzandji via UA-Tech <ua-tech@icann.org><br>
<b>Reply to: </b>Hervé Hounzandji <herve.hounzandji@gmail.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, 21 November 2023 at 09:10<br>
<b>To: </b>gopal <gopal@annauniv.edu><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"ua-tech@icann.org" <ua-tech@icann.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [UA-Tech] BIUWG action item for Tech and Measurement WGs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi guys, <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">thanks John et Gopal.<br>
<br>
As a technician, it would be necessary to establish a clear definition of "variant" of a domain name otherwise we will not be able to move forward.<br>
So, I need more details.<br>
For example : myname.tld<br>
variants are only on <b>myname </b>or on both <b>myname </b>and the <b>TLD </b>?<br>
For me, variants must concern only the first side : myname.<br>
<br>
Have a great day !<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Le mar. 21 nov. 2023 à 08:42, gopal via UA-Tech <<a href="mailto:ua-tech@icann.org">ua-tech@icann.org</a>> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:black">Thank you John Levine for the nice examples.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">DNS does strict identifier mapping. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Humans using languages and scripts do fuzzy mappings <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Can we reconcile them ?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:black">Variant is a nice method adopted by ICANN.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:black">There is today no fully accepted definition for what may constitute a variant relationship between top-level labels, and the results of the case studies suggest that
it would be very difficult to come to a single definition at the current time, because there is more than one phenomenon being discussed.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:black">For a given language or script, a codepoint may be valid in one TLD and invalid in another.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:black">We need rules to conclude and halt. That is seldom easy.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:black">The Simple LDH rule reads: A label that conforms to the hostname format that can consist of ASCII letters, digits, or hyphens. A hyphen must not occupy the first
or last position of the label.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:black">IDNs need LGRs to reckon with and compatible with the functioning of the DNS.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:black">IMHO, there is a need to include the systemic support to ensure safe, reliable and resilient operations.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:black">Your thoughts..</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:black">Sincerely,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p style="background:#FEFEFE;margin:1.5rem"><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Noto Sans",sans-serif;color:#333333">A
</span><b><u><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Noto Sans",sans-serif;color:#047BC1"><a href="https://www.icann.org/en/icann-acronyms-and-terms/label-en" target="_blank"><span style="color:#047BC1">label</span></a></span></u></b><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Noto Sans",sans-serif;color:#333333"> that
conforms to the </span><b><u><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Noto Sans",sans-serif;color:#047BC1"><a href="https://www.icann.org/en/icann-acronyms-and-terms/hostname-en" target="_blank"><span style="color:#047BC1">hostname</span></a></span></u></b><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Noto Sans",sans-serif;color:#333333"> format
defined in </span><b><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Noto Sans",sans-serif;color:#036AA6"><a href="https://www.icann.org/en/icann-acronyms-and-terms/request-for-comments-en" target="_blank"><span style="color:#036AA6;text-decoration:none">Request
for Comments</span></a></span></b><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Noto Sans",sans-serif;color:#333333"> (</span><b><u><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Noto Sans",sans-serif;color:#047BC1"><a href="https://www.icann.org/en/icann-acronyms-and-terms/request-for-comments-en" target="_blank"><span style="color:#047BC1">RFC</span></a></span></u></b><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Noto Sans",sans-serif;color:#333333">)
952, as modified by </span><b><u><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Noto Sans",sans-serif;color:#047BC1"><a href="https://www.icann.org/en/icann-acronyms-and-terms/request-for-comments-en" target="_blank"><span style="color:#047BC1">RFC</span></a></span></u></b><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Noto Sans",sans-serif;color:#333333"> 1123.
</span><b><u><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Noto Sans",sans-serif;color:#047BC1"><a href="https://www.icann.org/en/icann-acronyms-and-terms/ldh-label-en" target="_blank"><span style="color:#047BC1">LDH label</span></a></span></u></b><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Noto Sans",sans-serif;color:#333333">s
can consist of </span><b><u><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Noto Sans",sans-serif;color:#047BC1"><a href="https://www.icann.org/en/icann-acronyms-and-terms/ascii-en" target="_blank"><span style="color:#047BC1">ASCII</span></a></span></u></b><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Noto Sans",sans-serif;color:#333333"> letters,
digits, or hyphens. A hyphen must not occupy the first or last position of the </span>
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;color:black">Gopal T V</span><span style="font-size:1.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:#FEFEFE;margin:1.5rem"><span style="color:#201F1E;background:white">0 9840121302</span><span style="font-size:1.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:#FEFEFE;margin:1.5rem"><span style="color:black;background:white"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/vidwan.inflibnet.ac.in/profile/57545__;!!PtGJab4!-B6Fx_6epJzcB8dKAgZpxEfDp4vR8suuBJoieFO0h4ijBt8yQ-FPVwm5tzbtLp45pbbSq0lXQ1Hz0l_2yCko2cksC8E$" target="_blank">https://vidwan.inflibnet.ac.in/profile/57545
[vidwan.inflibnet.ac.in]</a></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><br>
</span><span style="color:black;background:white"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.facebook.com/gopal.tadepalli__;!!PtGJab4!-B6Fx_6epJzcB8dKAgZpxEfDp4vR8suuBJoieFO0h4ijBt8yQ-FPVwm5tzbtLp45pbbSq0lXQ1Hz0l_2yCkojinCo4U$" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/gopal.tadepalli
[facebook.com]</a></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><br>
</span><span style="color:#201F1E;background:white">++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><br>
</span><span style="color:#201F1E;background:white">Dr. T V Gopal</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><br>
</span><span style="color:#201F1E;background:white">Professor</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><br>
</span><span style="color:#201F1E;background:white">Department of Computer Science and Engineering</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><br>
</span><span style="color:#201F1E;background:white">College of Engineering</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><br>
</span><span style="color:#201F1E;background:white">Anna University</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><br>
</span><span style="color:#201F1E;background:white">Chennai - 600 025, INDIA</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><br>
</span><span style="color:#201F1E;background:white">Ph : (Off) 22351723 Extn. 3340</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><br>
</span><span style="color:#201F1E;background:white"> (Res) 24454753</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><br>
</span><span style="color:#201F1E;background:white">++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++</span><span style="font-size:1.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> UA-Tech <<a href="mailto:ua-tech-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">ua-tech-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of John Levine via UA-Tech <<a href="mailto:ua-tech@icann.org" target="_blank">ua-tech@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 21 November 2023 06:52<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:ua-tech@icann.org" target="_blank">ua-tech@icann.org</a> <<a href="mailto:ua-tech@icann.org" target="_blank">ua-tech@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [UA-Tech] BIUWG action item for Tech and Measurement WGs</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It appears that Seda Akbulut via UA-Tech <<a href="mailto:seda.akbulut@icann.org" target="_blank">seda.akbulut@icann.org</a>> said:<br>
>Background information about the BIUWG and UASG meeting:<br>
>BIUWG raised that IDN variant TLDs may have an impact on UA and asked if UASG is considering it?<br>
<br>
Experience tells us that the answer is no.<br>
<br>
> 1. Is there any points in the DNS ecosystem that needs variant domain names to be ‘merged’? ...<br>
<br>
From a technical point of view, there is no such thing as variants.<br>
They're just different domain names. At a semantic level, people want<br>
variants to be treated the same, but nobody has ever been able to<br>
explain what "the same" means here.<br>
<br>
It is not very hard to have a DNS provisioning system make two names<br>
equivalent, and to install matching contents in the zones. I've done<br>
it for my users who have multiple names that they want to act<br>
similarly. That's not a problem that needs to be solved.<br>
<br>
It would also not be very hard to set up web and mail configurations<br>
to tell the server that domains B, C, and D are the same as A. Web<br>
requests for URLs in B, C, and D would do the same thing as requests<br>
for URLs in A, or so mail to xxx@B, xxx@C, xxx@D go to the same place<br>
as xxx@A. But you know what? Nobody has ever done it because NOBODY<br>
CARES. The market has spoken and told us that there is no demand for<br>
variant names.<br>
<br>
The closest we've had to 2LD variants was .NGO and .ONG which were<br>
until recently sold as a bundle, and everyone who had one also had the<br>
other. I went through the zone files one time to see how many of them<br>
had configured their web and mail servers to respond consistently to<br>
both. One provider did, everyone else did one or the other but not<br>
both. The .CAT registry used to provision accented and unaccented<br>
versions of names with a DNAME, so that <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ABC.cat__;!!PtGJab4!-B6Fx_6epJzcB8dKAgZpxEfDp4vR8suuBJoieFO0h4ijBt8yQ-FPVwm5tzbtLp45pbbSq0lXQ1Hz0l_2yCkoFncGrLQ$" target="_blank">
www.ABC.cat [abc.cat]</a> and <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.abc.cat__;!!PtGJab4!-B6Fx_6epJzcB8dKAgZpxEfDp4vR8suuBJoieFO0h4ijBt8yQ-FPVwm5tzbtLp45pbbSq0lXQ1Hz0l_2yCkoPLirXhM$" target="_blank">
www.abc.cat [abc.cat]</a><br>
pointed to the same place, where ABC and abc are accented and<br>
unaccented versions of the name. Again I looked to see how many people<br>
made their web servers respond consistently, and found that nobody<br>
did.<br>
<br>
I would suggest we direct our efforts elsewhere, to topics that people<br>
do care about.<br>
<br>
R's,<br>
John<br>
<br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmailsignatureprefix">-- </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hervé HOUNZANDJI<o:p></o:p></p>
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