[Ws2-jurisdiction] OFAC Rec.s

Sat Sep 23 18:19:20 UTC 2017

I have no specific section in mind
I just want to know which section of RAA give such authority to  resello to deny service?
Regards
Kavouss

Sent from my iPhone

> On 23 Sep 2017, at 21:54, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Kavouss,
> 
> I am out for the day, so I will give this a more detailed review later.  One quick question -- what section of the RAA are you referring to? That will help the Subgroup understand your proposal better. 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Greg
> 
>> On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 2:21 AM Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com> wrote:
>> De ar Greg,
>> Sorry for misinterpretation .I did not make any allegatiuon at all
>> I just reflected my impression of the way the matter is treated.
>> The statement you made above, could only be interpreted that the suggestion made is not favoured by you according to your reasoning and or your judgement .
>> In my view when Something is not pursued it is blocked.My be the term blocked was not a correct one but in reality it did not carried forward
>> Sorry ,if the term " Blocked " boithered you then I replaced it by " is not currently being carried forward "
>> Now back to the issue Under discussion
>> Yes , it does not have direct relation with OFAC but why not you mention what you said in your last reply as follows
>> 
>> 
>> "It was reported to the Group that a registrar ( RESELLO) has developed / used a business policy of not doing business with Iranian passport holders, independent of any sanctions, US or otherwise.  This may be a bad policy, .The group did not conclude that  it has any  direct ( or indirect ) connection to sanctions (US or otherwise) or ICANN's jurisdiction.The Group inferred from Resello's decision that there are reasons, unrelated to OFAC, for declining to do business with nationals of an OFAC-sanctioned country. There seems to be legitimate that ICANN  investigate the matter carefully and remind RESELLO that such course of action would be counterproductive as it is contray to the terms and conditions specified7 stipulated in the RAA".
>> 
>> As you know I have raised this matter, independently from the activities of the Jurisdiction Group with Chairman,and CEO of ICANN and chair of the GNSO Council copied to to CCWG co-chairs and you .
>> 
>> Now may I kindly request you to consider the language that I proposed you and include it in appropriate / relevant part of the Report with ,possibly, some cross refernce in the body of recommands part .
>> Awaiting your kind consideration and quick reply
>> Kavouss  
>> 
>>> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 7:24 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Kavouss,
>>> 
>>> I am not "blocking" anything, either.  
>>> 
>>> It is a very serious allegation to say that a rapporteur is blocking something that they "do not like."  You have absolutely no idea what I "like" and "do not like."
>>> 
>>> The "problem" with "indicating" the Resello situation "in the introductory part of the Report" is that it has absolutely no connection, direct or indirect, to OFAC sanctions or to ICANN's "jurisdiction" -- in the US or elsewhere.
>>> 
>>> You have chosen to infer that Resello's policy is somehow related to OFAC, even though they are a non-US registrar and they have made absolutely no reference to OFAC or US law or ICANN.  There is no basis for that inference.  Without a basis, there is no reason for the Subgroup to include the Resello situation in the Recommendations on US sanctions or sanctions generally.
>>> 
>>> Without any connection to OFAC, sanctions regime or ICANN's jurisdiction, "Resello" only shows us that a registrar has a business policy of not entering into reseller agreements with Iranian passport holders.  Personally, I do not like this policy (so now you have some idea what I "do not like"), though I would want more facts before making a final judgment.  
>>> 
>>> But why would it be in our Report?  It shows that a registrar developed a business policy of not doing business with Iranian passport holders, independent of any sanctions, US or otherwise.  This may be a bad policy, but we can't say it has any connection to sanctions (US or otherwise) or ICANN's jurisdiction.  Putting this in the Report would not support any Issues or Recommendation the Subgroup has identified.  If anything, it would be counterproductive, as it could infer from Resello's decision that there are reasons, unrelated to OFAC, for declining to do business with nationals of an OFAC-sanctioned country.  Why would we want that in this Report?
>>> 
>>> I look forward to your response to these concerns.
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>> Greg Shatan
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 5:32 PM, Erika Mann <erika at erikamann.com> wrote:
>>>> Dear Kavouss - 
>>>> I'm not blocking anything. Just making a comment with regard to the point you raised in relation to the Dutch case, insofar that I was saying the Dutch decision might relate to an EU restriction and not to an US restriction. 
>>>> 
>>>> Kind regards, 
>>>> Erika
>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 10:09 PM, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Dear Greg
>>>>> Dear Erika$
>>>>>  What is the problem that you indicate that in the introductory part of the Report.
>>>>> You have asked me on 13 and 18 of September to provide you with the factual evidence on this type of discrimination or restriction and I have provided that to you.
>>>>> You you are blocking it. You are are expected to reflect the report on this type of restriction whether directly or indirectly related to OFAC.
>>>>> Your action is not to decide what is right and what is wrong. There is no veto right given to you .I insist to reflect that .
>>>>> Pls kindly do not further block this
>>>>> You blocking whatever, you do not like
>>>>> Pls kindly, ionce again. be helpful, fair and collaborative
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Kavouss  
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 8:06 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Kavouss,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As a factual happening, I don't see why this should be reflected in our report.  Resello's business decision does not seem to be related to OFAC, US jurisdiction or to any ICANN-related jurisdiction.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I asked you whether Resello's agreement with ICANN (the Registrar Accreditation Agreement (RAA)) prohibits Resello from establishing the policy you have mentioned.  If ICANN does not prohibit this policy, and it is not triggered by OFAC or some other connection to ICANN's jurisdictions, then it seems to be unconnected to our work.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I don't know whether there is an EU or Dutch law that requires this policy, or whether there is one that prohibits it.  If there is one that requires it, that is not an "ICANN jurisdiction" issue.  If there is one that prohibits it and Resello is violating Dutch law, then it may be that Resello is violating the RAA requirement (Section 3.7.2) that Registrars abide by applicable law.  But again, that's a Compliance issue.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Dear Greg
>>>>>>> I do not know what question you raised.
>>>>>>> If you believe that Mark Assenberg
>>>>>>>  from Resello  which is a subsidiary company for Yourholding holding:
>>>>>>> with the below address Ceintuurbaan 28,8024 AA Zwolle, +31 38 453 0752
>>>>>>> based in Netherlands.being  a  non  US-Based company  on the basis of which section of the RAA refrain such a business decision (i.e., a registrar deciding not to do business with citizens of a given country (whether it is Canada, Haiti, Iran or otherwise)?
>>>>>>> May you address this issue as a factual happening .
>>>>>>> Pls kindly advise how you trest and reflect that in the report
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>> Kavouss
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 7:28 PM, Nigel Roberts <nigel at channelisles.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 20/09/17 18:19, Greg Shatan wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Can you please guide me to the section of the RAA that would prevent
>>>>>>>>> such a business decision (i.e., a registrar deciding not to do business
>>>>>>>>> with citizens of a given country (whether it is Canada, Haiti, Iran or
>>>>>>>>> otherwise)?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> In the United Kingdom, never mind the RAA, this would be quite illegal (see s.13, prohibited conduct) unless such treatment is required by law (e.g.  required by legally binding sanctions).
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> How can anyone in the 21st century believe that any "business decision" doctrine could allow making decisions on the basis of race/citizenship (or any other protected characteristic) is quite alien over here and incomprehensible.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list
>>>>>>>> Ws2-jurisdiction at icann.org
>>>>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list
>>>>>>> Ws2-jurisdiction at icann.org
>>>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/ws2-jurisdiction/attachments/20170923/d7d01b36/attachment-0001.html>