[Ws2-jurisdiction] CONSENSUS CALL ON NOTE 4.1 TEXTS: Almost Final Draft Report for Review before Submission to Plenary on 2 March

Fri Mar 2 19:01:58 UTC 2018

Dear all, I vote in support of option #4. Also, I oppose options #2 and #3.

-Brian

Brian Scarpelli
Senior Policy Counsel
+1 517-507-1446<mailto:+1%20517-507-1446> | bscarpelli at actonline.org<mailto:bscarpelli at actonline.org>
ACT | The App Association
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From: Ws2-jurisdiction [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Cheryl Langdon-Orr
Sent: Friday, March 2, 2018 1:58 PM
To: ws2-jurisdiction <ws2-jurisdiction at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] CONSENSUS CALL ON NOTE 4.1 TEXTS: Almost Final Draft Report for Review before Submission to Plenary on 2 March

I note some support for "no change" and as that's already well established language I can certainly live with that outcome...

Please note, I had left the call just before ending to join another call, so wasn't actually present at the moment of any discussion, of the alternative to the middle ground of "Option 1" from earlier in the call but  (still a good fall back as well in my view) so my response was specifically to Greg's urgent Concensus Call, to the list, based on the background provided in that email.

On Mar 2, 2018 23:34, "Cheryl Langdon-Orr" <langdonorr at gmail.com<mailto:langdonorr at gmail.com>> wrote:
I was hoping for clear "middle ground text" but failing that I believe my balance approach means supported for option 3, both proposals to be published and seek any feedback from the Community during Public Comment.

On Mar 2, 2018 18:15, "Arasteh" <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com<mailto:kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear All
I have supported Thiago proposal as also supported by Jorge.
I therefore maintain my support
Regards
Kavouss
Sent from my iPhone

On 2 Mar 2018, at 07:45, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>> wrote:
All,

We need to come to consensus on how to deal with the two proposed texts resulting from "Note 4.1."  I've reviewed the captioning, chat, email list & draft to figure out the most appropriate way forward, and a clear result emerges.  On this point only, I'm extending the deadline to 20:00 UTC. (Any other points, the deadline is still 18:00 UTC.)

The bottom line is this:  Unless one or both texts ("as is" or with agreed modifications) emerges as a consensus choice (i.e., "a position where ... most agree") between now (06:30 UTC) and 20:00 UTC, neither text will be in the Draft Report.

Please quickly indicate your support for one of the following alternatives:

1. Support first proposal only.
2. Support second proposal only.
3. Support both proposals.
4. No change; neither text will be in the Report.

Thank you.

The draft report is attached in Word and PDF.  In addition, I found it helpful to pull together a detailed timeline to best understand where we are and how we got here. The long version of the timeline is attached.  The chat and captioning are here<https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=79434430>.

The short version of the timeline is this:

  *   We discussed Note 4.1 on the call.  The objective was identified as "showing the public that we took their comments into account." We ran through various alternatives, which had little support and a few objections. I noted that nothing was jelling.
  *   Based on the various alternatives I suggested a "middle ground."
  *   There seemed to be support for this approach and I said "I think we can take that as the result of 4.1."  There was no objection and we moved on to the rest of the call.
  *   As the call was winding up, Thiago wrote in chat, "On the outstanding point 4.1, which is outstanding I understand, may I try to lend you a hand in finding that delicate balance?" and provided some text.  The first part was largely the same as text that was objected to earlier in the call; the second part was new.
  *   The call was breaking up and there was no discussion of this suggestion, though Kavouss and Jorge supported it in the chat. We noted that the proposal could be reviewed on the list.
  *   In the Draft Report, I included both proposed texts -- the text I prepared based on the "middle ground" discussion in the group and the text that Thiago put in the chat.
Procedurally, we are in a somewhat muddled position.  First, this was not actually an outstanding point at the end of the call, so I was mistaken in treating it as if it were.  Second, while the Draft Report makes it look like both proposals could end up in the Report, the second suggestion (from the end of the call) was intended to be a replacement for the first one (identified as the "result of 4.1" earlier in the call).

A hyper-technical view would be that the second suggestion was out of order and should not be considered.  We would then have one suggestion and life would be simpler.  Another hyper-technical view would be that the suggestions were intended to be alternatives and must be treated as a "one or the other (or neither)" decision.

I think it's simpler (and less technical) to look at it this way:

We have two proposals.  Both are possibilities.  Neither text was really discussed on the call.  The first text was based on a conceptual understanding that seemed to get traction, but the text wasn't discussed.  The second text was suggested at the very end of the call and wasn't discussed either.  We have less than 24 hours before this Draft Report must be submitted, and it must be the consensus view of the Subgroup.  With this lack of consideration, neither text can claim to be the consensus view of the Subgroup and a "no objections" approach would be inappropriate.

As such, unless one or both texts ("as is" or with agreed modifications) emerges as a consensus choice (i.e., "a position where ... most agree") between now (06:30 UTC) and 22:00 UTC, neither text will be in the Draft Report.

Please quickly indicate your support for one of the following alternatives:

1. Support first proposal only.
2. Support second proposal only.
3. Support both proposals.
4. No change; neither text will be in the Report.

Greg

On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 12:07 PM Raphaël BEAUREGARD-LACROIX <raphael.beauregardlacroix at sciencespo.fr<mailto:raphael.beauregardlacroix at sciencespo.fr>> wrote:
Dear all,

Would it be possible to keep both the first (generic) statement and the second, more specific one? While it is slightly repetitive, the second can serve as an example to the first.

Best,

2018-03-01 15:40 GMT+01:00 <Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch>>:
Dear Greg and all,

If I understand your email below correctly, and consistent with what was agreed yesterday, you are consulting the list on the latest text that Thiago proposed on note 4.1, i.e. the following addition, right?:

“The late suggestion added to the report that “Further Discussions of Jurisdiction-Related Concerns” are needed, in particular on jurisdictional immunities, found echo in several comments subsequently received, but these comments did not bring any changes to the report, nor could they be considered in detail, on the understanding that the existing support for “further discussions” to address unresolved concerns, including in other fora, had already been acknowledged”

As said yesterday I have no objections to such an addition.

Best regards

Jorge

Von: Ws2-jurisdiction [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces at icann.org>] Im Auftrag von Greg Shatan
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 1. März 2018 00:22
An: ws2-jurisdiction <ws2-jurisdiction at icann.org<mailto:ws2-jurisdiction at icann.org>>
Betreff: [Ws2-jurisdiction] Fwd: PLEASE REVIEW: Almost Final Draft Report for Review before Submission to Plenary on 2 March

All,

Attached in Word and PDF is the almost final Draft Report, based on today’s call.  This is also available in Google Docs at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rdMJyvZdyN9TApT6gx_3NwpdvIL7YKHEUD7tNfLf6hU/edit?usp=sharing.

Please review and comment.  I have marked in the margin the sections corresponding to the “Notes” in the chart distributed before today’s call.

In particular please review and respond to the suggested text on page 12 at the end of the “Overview of the Work of the Subgroup.”  There are two proposed additions that grew out of Note 4.1.  The first received broad support on the call without noted objections.

The second received both support and objections on the call.  Since there was no clear path forward from the call, it is important that as many participants as possible give this careful consideration and provide their views on this second proposed addition.  This text reads as follows:

The late suggestion added to the report that “Further Discussions of Jurisdiction-Related Concerns” are needed, in particular on jurisdictional immunities, found echo in several comments subsequently received, but these comments did not bring any changes to the report, nor could they be considered in detail, on the understanding that the existing support for “further discussions” to address unresolved concerns, including in other fora, had already been acknowledged.

I look forward to hearing from you all, with regard to the report as a whole and any specific aspects, in particular the proposed text above.

Since the final draft must be submitted no later than 23:59 UTC on 2 March, I am setting a deadline of 18:00 UTC on 2 March for all responses.

Thank you!

Greg

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