[cc-humanrights] Fwd: Fwd: Re: More comments.
Niels ten Oever
niels at article19.org
Tue Jun 2 14:27:38 UTC 2015
Dear Stephanie,
Latest version is the one in which Marilia commented, attached for your
convenience.
Kathy can be added as a member at this link:
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-humanrights
Best,
Niels
On 02-06-15 16:24, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
> trying again. Where is the latest draft so I can edit only once?
> Kathy is still not on the group list, so I have to insert her comments
> too. Please send latest version
>
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: Fwd: Re: [cc-humanrights] More comments.
> Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 14:33:40 -0400
> From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
> To: Monika.Zalnieriute at eui.eu <Monika.Zalnieriute at eui.eu>, Kathy
> Kleiman <kathy at kathykleiman.com>
>
>
>
> Hi Monika, Kathy here (who was around for the setup of the UDRP and
> fought to keep it less bad than it might have been), had a couple of
> comments on your excellent report. I can add them when I edit, or she
> could tell you. I have tried twice now to get her added to the human
> rights list, if you have any idea how to get her on the list, please
> yell. Kathy has a lot of deep first hand experience with ICANN on this
> stuff, and we need her.
> cheers Steph
> PS she also agrees with publishing now.....not waiting, as Michele
> suggested.
> Sorry to have missed the call but I had kids and thesis advisor issues
> that trumped it....
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: Re: [cc-humanrights] More comments.
> Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 10:36:56 -0400
> From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
> To: cc-humanrights at icann.org, Kathy Kleiman <kathy at kathykleiman.com>
>
>
>
> My apologies for missing the call, I had an unexpected event here.
> I would be happy to help with final edits, as I expect there were more
> revisions suggested on the call. I am ccing Kathy as I am not sure
> whether you have added her to the list as yet.
> Kind regards, Stephanie P
> On 2015-05-29 8:46, zalnieriute . wrote:
>> Dear All,
>>
>> Would it be fine if I address Marianne's and Gabrielle's comments into
>> the document first, and then we give to Stephanie for grammatical
>> edits she promised in an earlier e-mail?
>>
>> Let me know as we dont want to have several parellell versions at the
>> same time,
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Monika
>>
>> On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Marianne Franklin
>> <m.i.franklin at gold.ac.uk <mailto:m.i.franklin at gold.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear all
>>
>> Just wanted to say hello, rather late into this really interesting
>> and productive conversation on this CCWP for ICANN. The thread was
>> quite long and substantial so have had to take time to get up to
>> speed; nothing like a long train-ride to enable that!.
>>
>> Being relatively new to ICANN at this level of work, it is quite
>> encouraging to see how far this work has gone.
>>
>> I have not much to add in terms of the discussions around the
>> title of the document, and also the symbolic and legally
>> substantive issues around Human Rights as enshrined in
>> international law and CSR. All the points raised are for a
>> non-expert make sense.
>>
>> A couple of comments if I may though on the document as it is
>> readied for circulation to the iCANN community; based on reading
>> the penultimate draft but hopefully still relevant for the final
>> tweaks, and future references.
>>
>> 1) The revised preamble/framing of this initiative for ICANN folk:
>> this works pretty well now as long as there remains room for
>> eventual inclusion of later human rights treaties and covenants
>> that tend to drop off the list e.g. those on disability, the
>> rights of women, rights of children etc. ICANN may want to, at
>> this very early stage, restrict its thinking to privacy and
>> freedom of expression, or focus on consumer rights at the expense
>> of more inclusive human rights norms and keep stipulating this,
>> particularly in terms of consumer rights and CSR frameworks.
>> Nonetheless, revising this project in a way that continues to more
>> inclusive is in the long term the right way to go even if there
>> may be push-back: international human rights law and norms do not
>> stop with the ICCPR and ICESCR, and norms change slowly over time
>> as do legal instruments such as the UN Bill of Rights .... :) .
>>
>> a) So moving from there to the current introduction; where a clear
>> distinction is made between protecting and respecting human
>> rights. This makes sense so do make sure that the remaining
>> references to 'protecting' human rights are redacted later in the
>> document (e.g. page 18).
>>
>> b) That said and recalling point 1 above, the strong emphasis on
>> how this initiative will only acknowledge"human rights content
>> [that] is limited to internationally recognized human rights..."
>> (page 8) strikes me as a bit too restrictive in that international
>> recognition of the full range of human rights instruments that
>> have been put in place since the UDHR varies across these treaties
>> and covenants.
>>
>> This prominent place given to limitations and restrictions on
>> which human rights instruments will be taken on board, even if for
>> strategic purposes, This could in the future put this whole
>> initiative on to the back foot as these "later" human rights
>> instruments become relevant to ICANN's work.
>>
>> I am not a legal expert nor scholar of international human rights
>> law but could this second limitation on page 8 perhaps be
>> rephrased to accommodate just these nuances and in way that does
>> not scare the horses (so to speak) but also does not shut the door
>> for future developments. Not sure how to rephrase this but
>> something like "human rights content refers specifically to
>> recognized international human rights law and norms....."
>>
>> 2) The latter point affects what follows in the document and how
>> different stakeholders will respond: So If I could just make one
>> longer comment on the current text in light of comments related to
>> the IRPC Charter. And, as some of you know, what comes next is
>> from the point of view of the work of the IRP Coalition and its
>> Charter of Human Rights and Principles of the Internet. This is
>> mentioned, and referenced on page 12;
>>
>> It was suggested that the IRPC Charter does not have the requisite
>> status because some of its Clauses "fall below international
>> standards". The legal point - and ensuing debates - raised here
>> notwithstanding (which Gabrielle provided for the IRPC Charter
>> review at the 2014 IGF so they are well taken), I would like to
>> note that seeing the IRPC Charter given its due place in the final
>> draft confirms that these reservations need not preclude mention
>> of the IRPC Charter in the context of this new opening for ICANN.
>>
>> This is because whatever the verdict on its content at present may
>> be (Version 1.1) in the ICANN work the IRPC Charter is being
>> rightly attributed its role as a foundational framework for
>> thinking about human rights (broadly defined) within the more
>> technically focused IG spaces - within and beyond ICANN. This is
>> because it is arguably the first document that takes international
>> law seriously as well as those more ethical though less legally
>> rigorous positions advocated in civil society spaces i.e. the IRPC
>> Charter links human rights (in toto) obligations for states to
>> those articulated for corporations through CSR undertaking. For
>> this reason alone it deserves this mention.
>>
>> What do I mean here? The critical points about some parts of the
>> IRPC Charter referring to emerging rather than existing rights
>> reach back to the earliest days of the IRPC Charter drafting
>> process back in 2009; a period of starting out that saw
>> discussions not unlike the ones we have had on this thread for the
>> ICANN application of human rights in its work 5-6 years, and
>> several UN resolutions etc, later. But even with these
>> imperfections the IRPC Charter, in its own terms a "living
>> document" (taking its cue from the UDHR) is a formative part of
>> the ethical and legal landscape in which this ICANN-based
>> initiative has emerged.
>>
>> So good to see that the IRPC Charter reference is still there
>> though could I suggest the following revision of this paragraph on
>> page 12 for accuracy:
>>
>> "Within the framework of the Internet Governance Forum, the
>> Internet Rights & Principles Coalition was created in 2009 with
>> the mission “to make rights on the Internet and their
>> related duties, specified from the point of view of individual
>> users, a central theme of the internet governance debate held in
>> the IGF context". In 2010-11 the Internet Rights & Principles
>> Coalition developed its Charter of Human Rights and Principles for
>> the Internet, distilling its 21 clauses into 10 Rights and
>> Principles for the Internet based on international human rights
>> laws and norms.."
>>
>> 3) A minor editing point: Page 12, note 29 is incomplete so a
>> minor edit could be "The IRPC Charter is available, in booklet
>> form, in 8 languages, at http://internetrightsandprinciples.org/site/"
>>
>> 4) And on fiddly things like spelling and typos: Other edits too
>> are needed to have consistent spelling (US or UK Spelling) and
>> there are still some typos still need correcting.
>>
>> 5) On Stephanie's points about human rights scaring people; too
>> true. So all the more reason for this initiative in ICANN to take
>> courage; they scare not only the very states that are supposed to
>> uphold them and in so doing protect their citizens, by law and in
>> principle, but also powerful corporations, and ICANN is one, who
>> too often fudge fundamental freedoms under CSR waffle or step back
>> from "respecting" human rights in deed as well as words by
>> appealing to the limits set on them by various sorts of national
>> jurisdictions.. :)
>>
>> Will try and make the upcoming call tomorrow. Thanks Niels for all
>> this great text-shepherding work.
>>
>> best wishes
>> Marianne F
>>
>>
>> On 27/05/2015 16:32, Niels ten Oever wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> For your information, please find the comments from Gabrielle attached.
>>> Would be great to see the comments from Stephanie as well.
>>>
>>> If we want to make this a product of the CCWP, it would be great to have
>>> a bit more people.
>>>
>>> Also happy to discuss this at our call on Friday.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Niels
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> cc-humanrights mailing list
>>> cc-humanrights at icann.org <mailto:cc-humanrights at icann.org>
>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-humanrights
>>
>> --
>> Marianne Franklin, PhD
>> Professor of Global Media and Politics
>> Convener: Global Media & Transnational Communications Program
>> Goldsmiths (University of London)
>> Department of Media & Communications
>> New Cross, London SE14 6NW
>> Tel: +44 20 7919 7072 <tel:%2B44%2020%207919%207072>
>> <m.i.franklin at gold.ac.uk> <mailto:m.i.franklin at gold.ac.uk>
>> @GloComm
>> https://twitter.com/GloComm
>> http://www.gold.ac.uk/media-communications/staff/franklin/
>> https://www.gold.ac.uk/pg/ma-global-media-transnational-communications/
>> Chair of the Global Internet Governance Academic Network (GigaNet)
>> Steering Committee/Former Co-Chair Internet Rights & Principles Coalition (UN IGF)
>> www.internetrightsandprinciples.org <http://www.internetrightsandprinciples.org>
>> @netrights
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> cc-humanrights mailing list
>> cc-humanrights at icann.org <mailto:cc-humanrights at icann.org>
>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-humanrights
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Monika Zalnieriute
>> Centre for Internet & Human Rights
>> European University Viadrina
>> Mittelweg 50, 12053 Berlin, Germany
>> e-mail: monika.zalnieriute at eui.eu <mailto:monika.zalnieriute at eui.eu>
>> https://cihr.eu <https://cihr.eu/>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> cc-humanrights at icann.org
>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-humanrights
>
>
>
>
>
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