[cc-humanrights] Fwd: Fwd: Re: More comments.

Stephanie Perrin stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
Tue Jun 2 19:49:32 UTC 2015

Okay, here is a revised version where I hope I have caught a few of the 
grammaticals.  I have been a bit ruthless about throwing some bits 
out....I find the front end is somewhat vague and repetitive...the UDRP 
portion on the other hand is very strong and clear.  I think the front 
end could benefit from a good read by someone who really knows their 
ICANN process....that would not be me, although I guess I know a wee bit 
more than Monika and therefore was bold enough to suggest a few 
changes.  IN particular, we need to stay away from reliance on the Board.
I think it would also be useful to point out a few examples of existing 
violation of human rights issues that other groups have pointed out, but 
that simply  have never got any traction.  SSAC, for instance, has 
pointed out that ICANN needs to articulate the purpose of WHOIS.   They 
have done so repeatedly, as have the privacy commissioners.  So which 
principle is that breaking?  That sort of precision makes a more 
forceful argument than just pointing to WHOIS.
I love the UDRP section and if you are going to stick with not including 
it, would say the front end alone needs a lot more work to be more 
concrete before it is released.  Great work though!  We are getting 
Stephanie Perrin
On 2015-06-02 10:27, Niels ten Oever wrote:
> Dear Stephanie,
> Latest version is the one in which Marilia commented, attached for your
> convenience.
> Kathy can be added as a member at this link:
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-humanrights
> Best,
> Niels
> On 02-06-15 16:24, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>> trying again.  Where is the latest draft so I can edit only once?
>> Kathy is still not on the group list, so I have to insert her comments
>> too.  Please send latest version
>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>> Subject: 	Fwd: Re: [cc-humanrights] More comments.
>> Date: 	Fri, 29 May 2015 14:33:40 -0400
>> From: 	Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
>> To: 	Monika.Zalnieriute at eui.eu <Monika.Zalnieriute at eui.eu>, Kathy
>> Kleiman <kathy at kathykleiman.com>
>> Hi Monika, Kathy here (who was around for the setup of the UDRP and
>> fought to keep it less bad than it might have been), had a couple of
>> comments on your excellent report.  I can add them when I edit, or she
>> could tell you.  I have tried twice now to get her added to the human
>> rights list, if you have any idea how to get her on the list, please
>> yell.  Kathy has a lot of deep first hand experience with ICANN on this
>> stuff, and we need her.
>> cheers Steph
>> PS she also agrees with publishing now.....not waiting, as Michele
>> suggested.
>> Sorry to have missed the call but I had kids and thesis advisor issues
>> that trumped it....
>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>> Subject: 	Re: [cc-humanrights] More comments.
>> Date: 	Fri, 29 May 2015 10:36:56 -0400
>> From: 	Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
>> To: 	cc-humanrights at icann.org, Kathy Kleiman <kathy at kathykleiman.com>
>> My apologies for missing the call, I had an unexpected event here.
>> I would be happy to help with final edits, as I expect there were more
>> revisions suggested on the call.  I am ccing Kathy as I am not sure
>> whether you have added her to the list as yet.
>> Kind regards, Stephanie P
>> On 2015-05-29 8:46, zalnieriute . wrote:
>>> Dear All,
>>> Would it be fine if I address Marianne's and Gabrielle's comments into
>>> the document first, and then we give to Stephanie for grammatical
>>> edits she promised in an earlier e-mail?
>>> Let me know as we dont want to have several parellell versions at the
>>> same time,
>>> Best wishes,
>>> Monika
>>> On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Marianne Franklin
>>> <m.i.franklin at gold.ac.uk <mailto:m.i.franklin at gold.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>>      Dear all
>>>      Just wanted to say hello, rather late into this really interesting
>>>      and productive conversation on this CCWP for ICANN. The thread was
>>>      quite long and substantial so have had to take time to get up to
>>>      speed; nothing like a long train-ride to enable that!.
>>>      Being relatively new to ICANN at this level of work, it is quite
>>>      encouraging to see how far this work has gone.
>>>      I have not much to add in terms of the discussions around the
>>>      title of the document, and also the symbolic and legally
>>>      substantive issues around Human Rights as enshrined in
>>>      international law and CSR. All the points raised are for a
>>>      non-expert make sense.
>>>      A couple of comments if I may though on the document as it is
>>>      readied for circulation to the iCANN community; based on reading
>>>      the penultimate draft but hopefully still relevant for the final
>>>      tweaks, and future references.
>>>      1) The revised preamble/framing of this initiative for ICANN folk:
>>>      this works pretty well now as long as there remains room for
>>>      eventual inclusion of later human rights treaties and covenants
>>>      that tend to drop off the list e.g. those on disability, the
>>>      rights of women, rights of children etc. ICANN may want to, at
>>>      this very early stage, restrict its thinking to privacy and
>>>      freedom of expression, or focus on consumer rights at the expense
>>>      of more inclusive human rights norms and keep stipulating this,
>>>      particularly in terms of consumer rights and CSR frameworks.
>>>      Nonetheless, revising this project in a way that continues to more
>>>      inclusive is in the long term the right way to go even if there
>>>      may be push-back: international human rights law and norms do not
>>>      stop with the ICCPR and ICESCR, and norms change slowly over time
>>>      as do legal instruments such as the UN Bill of Rights .... :) .
>>>      a) So moving from there to the current introduction; where a clear
>>>      distinction is made between protecting and respecting human
>>>      rights. This makes sense so do make sure that the remaining
>>>      references to 'protecting' human rights are redacted later in the
>>>      document (e.g. page 18).
>>>      b) That said and recalling point 1 above, the strong emphasis on
>>>      how this initiative will only acknowledge"human rights content
>>>      [that] is limited to internationally recognized human rights..."
>>>      (page 8) strikes me as a bit too restrictive in that international
>>>      recognition of the full range of human rights instruments that
>>>      have been put in place since the UDHR varies across these treaties
>>>      and covenants.
>>>      This prominent place given to limitations and restrictions on
>>>      which human rights instruments will be taken on board, even if for
>>>      strategic purposes, This could in the future put this whole
>>>      initiative on to the back foot as these "later" human rights
>>>      instruments become relevant to ICANN's work.
>>>      I am not a legal expert nor scholar of international human rights
>>>      law but could this second limitation on page 8 perhaps be
>>>      rephrased to accommodate just these nuances and in way that does
>>>      not scare the horses (so to speak) but also does not shut the door
>>>      for future developments. Not sure how to rephrase this but
>>>      something like "human rights content refers specifically to
>>>      recognized international human rights law and norms....."
>>>      2) The latter point affects what follows in the document and how
>>>      different stakeholders will respond: So If I could just make one
>>>      longer comment on the current text in light of comments related to
>>>      the IRPC Charter. And, as some of you know, what comes next is
>>>      from the point of view of the work of the IRP Coalition and its
>>>      Charter of Human Rights and Principles of the Internet. This is
>>>      mentioned, and referenced on page 12;
>>>      It was suggested that the IRPC Charter does not have the requisite
>>>      status because some of its Clauses "fall below international
>>>      standards". The legal point - and ensuing debates - raised here
>>>      notwithstanding (which Gabrielle provided for the IRPC Charter
>>>      review at the 2014 IGF so they are well taken), I would like to
>>>      note that seeing the IRPC Charter given its due place in the final
>>>      draft confirms that these reservations need not preclude mention
>>>      of the IRPC Charter in the context of this new opening for ICANN.
>>>      This is because whatever the verdict on its content at present may
>>>      be (Version 1.1) in the ICANN work the IRPC Charter is being
>>>      rightly attributed its role as a foundational framework for
>>>      thinking about human rights (broadly defined) within the more
>>>      technically focused IG spaces - within and beyond ICANN. This is
>>>      because it is arguably the first document that takes international
>>>      law seriously as well as those more ethical though less legally
>>>      rigorous positions advocated in civil society spaces i.e. the IRPC
>>>      Charter links human rights (in toto) obligations for states to
>>>      those articulated for corporations through CSR undertaking. For
>>>      this reason alone it deserves this mention.
>>>      What do I mean here? The critical points about some parts of the
>>>      IRPC Charter referring to emerging rather than existing rights
>>>      reach back to the earliest days of the IRPC Charter drafting
>>>      process back in 2009; a period of starting out that saw
>>>      discussions not unlike the ones we have had on this thread for the
>>>      ICANN application of human rights in its work 5-6 years, and
>>>      several UN resolutions etc, later. But even with these
>>>      imperfections the IRPC Charter, in its own terms a "living
>>>      document" (taking its cue from the UDHR) is a formative part of
>>>      the ethical and legal landscape in which this ICANN-based
>>>      initiative has emerged.
>>>      So good to see that the IRPC Charter reference is still there
>>>      though could I suggest the following revision of this paragraph on
>>>      page 12 for accuracy:
>>>      "Within the framework of the Internet Governance Forum, the
>>>      Internet Rights & Principles Coalition was created in 2009 with
>>>      the mission “to make rights on the Internet and their
>>>      related duties, specified from the point of view of individual
>>>      users, a central theme of the internet governance debate held in
>>>      the IGF context".  In 2010-11 the Internet Rights & Principles
>>>      Coalition developed its Charter of Human Rights and Principles for
>>>      the Internet, distilling its 21 clauses into 10 Rights and
>>>      Principles for the Internet based on international human rights
>>>      laws and norms.."
>>>      3) A minor editing point: Page 12, note 29 is incomplete so a
>>>      minor edit could be "The IRPC Charter is available, in booklet
>>>      form, in 8 languages, at http://internetrightsandprinciples.org/site/"
>>>      4) And on fiddly things like spelling and typos: Other edits too
>>>      are needed to have consistent spelling (US or UK Spelling) and
>>>      there are still some typos still need correcting.
>>>      5) On Stephanie's points about human rights scaring people; too
>>>      true. So all the more reason for this initiative in ICANN to take
>>>      courage; they scare not only the very states that are supposed to
>>>      uphold them and in so doing protect their citizens, by law and in
>>>      principle, but also powerful corporations, and ICANN is one, who
>>>      too often fudge fundamental freedoms under CSR waffle or step back
>>>      from "respecting" human rights in deed as well as words by
>>>      appealing to the limits set on them by various sorts of national
>>>      jurisdictions.. :)
>>>      Will try and make the upcoming call tomorrow. Thanks Niels for all
>>>      this great text-shepherding work.
>>>      best wishes
>>>      Marianne F
>>>      On 27/05/2015 16:32, Niels ten Oever wrote:
>>>>      Hi all,
>>>>      For your information, please find the comments from Gabrielle attached.
>>>>      Would be great to see the comments from Stephanie as well.
>>>>      If we want to make this a product of the CCWP, it would be great to have
>>>>      a bit more people.
>>>>      Also happy to discuss this at our call on Friday.
>>>>      Best,
>>>>      Niels
>>>>      _______________________________________________
>>>>      cc-humanrights mailing list
>>>>      cc-humanrights at icann.org <mailto:cc-humanrights at icann.org>
>>>>      https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-humanrights
>>>      --
>>>      Marianne Franklin, PhD
>>>      Professor of Global Media and Politics
>>>      Convener: Global Media & Transnational Communications Program
>>>      Goldsmiths (University of London)
>>>      Department of Media & Communications
>>>      New Cross, London SE14 6NW
>>>      Tel: +44 20 7919 7072 <tel:%2B44%2020%207919%207072>
>>>      <m.i.franklin at gold.ac.uk> <mailto:m.i.franklin at gold.ac.uk>
>>>      @GloComm
>>>      https://twitter.com/GloComm
>>>      http://www.gold.ac.uk/media-communications/staff/franklin/
>>>      https://www.gold.ac.uk/pg/ma-global-media-transnational-communications/
>>>      Chair of the Global Internet Governance Academic Network (GigaNet)
>>>      Steering Committee/Former Co-Chair Internet Rights & Principles Coalition (UN IGF)
>>>      www.internetrightsandprinciples.org <http://www.internetrightsandprinciples.org>
>>>      @netrights
>>>      _______________________________________________
>>>      cc-humanrights mailing list
>>>      cc-humanrights at icann.org <mailto:cc-humanrights at icann.org>
>>>      https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-humanrights
>>> -- 
>>> Dr. Monika Zalnieriute
>>> Centre for Internet & Human Rights
>>> European University Viadrina
>>> Mittelweg 50, 12053 Berlin, Germany
>>> e-mail: monika.zalnieriute at eui.eu <mailto:monika.zalnieriute at eui.eu>
>>> https://cihr.eu <https://cihr.eu/>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> cc-humanrights mailing list
>>> cc-humanrights at icann.org
>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-humanrights

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