[Acct-Legal] Fwd: The need for more info on Uninc Assos

Fri May 1 14:45:41 UTC 2015

I can participate this afternoon and evening (NY time).  The weekend is
basically shot.  Tomorrow is difficult after 11 am New York time as I have
a birthday brunch with my son followed by a birthday party for my nephew,
and travel to/from both.  Sunday morning I have an 8:30 am flight to San
Diego for the International Trademark Association Annual Meeting.

Greg

On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:57 AM, List for the work of CCWG-Accountability
Legal SubTeam <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org> wrote:

> Thanks David.
>
> Jordan, Mathieu, Thomas, Cheryl, Steve, Becky?
>
> Saludos,
>
>
> León
>
> Enviado desde el móvil.
> Errores tipográficos son culpa del tecladito y mis dedos gordos.
>
> El may 1, 2015, a las 7:36 AM, List for the work of CCWG-Accountability
> Legal SubTeam <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org> escribió:
>
>  I could participate at 6pm US eastern time today and most of weekend.
>
>
>
> David McAuley
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org [
> mailto:ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org
> <ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *List for the
> work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam
> *Sent:* Friday, May 01, 2015 8:19 AM
> *To:* ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org
> *Cc:* Thomas Rickert; stevedelbianco; Cheryl Langdon-Orr
> *Subject:* Re: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: The need for more info on Uninc Assos
>
>
>
> Thanks Holly.
>
>
>
> I believe today would be difficult but would like to hear from others as
> to which time would also work for them.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Saludos,
>
>
>
>
>
> León
>
>
>
> Enviado desde el móvil.
>
> Errores tipográficos son culpa del tecladito y mis dedos gordos.
>
>
> El may 1, 2015, a las 6:53 AM, List for the work of CCWG-Accountability
> Legal SubTeam <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org> escribió:
>
>  Hi Leon, let me check with Rosemary.   Are you looking to do this later
> today?  We could potentially do this in the late afternoon.  Around 6
> eastern.  Holly
>
>
>
> Sent with Good (www.good.com)
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org on behalf of List for the
> work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam
> *Sent:* Friday, May 01, 2015 06:29:18 AM
> *To:* ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org; Thomas Rickert; Jordan Carter;
> Mathieu Weill; Greg Shatan; stevedelbianco; Cheryl Langdon-Orr; Becky Burr
> *Subject:* [Acct-Legal] Fwd: The need for more info on Uninc Assos
>
> Counsel,
>
>
>
> When would you be able to hold a call to help clarify the doubts around
> UAs interaction and general panorama on them?
>
>
>
> A one hour conference should be enough I think.
>
> Best regards ,
>
>
>
>
>
> León
>
>
>
> Enviado desde el móvil.
>
> Errores tipográficos son culpa del tecladito y mis dedos gordos.
>
>
> Inicio del mensaje reenviado:
>
>  *De:* Jordan Carter <jordan at internetnz.net.nz>
> *Fecha:* 1 de mayo de 2015, 5:36:41 AM CDT
> *Para:* Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill at afnic.fr>
> *Cc:* Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com>, Thomas Rickert <
> rickert at anwaelte.de>, León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <leonfelipe at sanchez.mx>,
> Becky Burr <Becky.Burr at neustar.biz>, Cheryl Langdon-Orr <
> langdonorr at gmail.com>, stevedelbianco <sdelbianco at netchoice.org>,
> ACCT-Staff <acct-staff at icann.org>
> *Asunto:* *Re: The need for more info on Uninc Assos*
>
>  It isn't about questions, Mathieu. It is about painting the picture of
> the reality of how this would actually work.
>
>
>
> I'm starting to think the best way to resolve that would be a half hour
> teleconference between us and the legal people. To flesh out how the model
> would work and write it down.
>
>
>
> J.
>
> On Friday, 1 May 2015, Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill at afnic.fr> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I support as well. I'll leave interaction with lawyers to leon but we
> would certainly help by starting to point out the questions the community
> would need answers to ?
>
>
>
> Jordan how would you frame them ?
>
> Mathieu Weill
>
> ---------------
>
> Depuis mon mobile, désolé pour le style
>
>
> Le 1 mai 2015 à 06:12, Jordan Carter <jordan at internetnz.net.nz> a écrit :
>
>  That's just one example...
>
>
>
> Leon, how quickly could we do this?
>
>
>
> J
>
> On Friday, 1 May 2015, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I agree 100%.  The overarching criticism of the first CWG report was that
> it was "too complex" and "lacked detail."  Initially I couldn't understand
> this criticism, because these appeared mutually exclusive.  I've come to
> understand that lack of detail leads to lack of clarity and lack of clarity
> makes it difficult to  grasp the concepts, and concepts that can't quite be
> grasped appear complex.
>
>
>
> Add to this the tendency of some (many?) in the community to insert
> dynamite into any crack in a proposal they don't favor and then point to
> the impending explosion....
>
>
>
> For a more direct example, look at the recent exchanges involving Chris
> Disspain, Jordan and myself.
>
>
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 11:33 PM, Jordan Carter <jordan at internetnz.net.nz>
> wrote:
>
> Hi team (Co-chairs, Rapporteurs, ACCT staff and Greg)
>
>
>
> I feel like I am beating my head against a wall on this but: WE NEED to
> present more information URGENTLY about the unincorporated association
> concept.
>
>
>
> *My request would be that we ask the lawyers to add a page of "flavour"
> and summary about the UAs to the 23 April memo and maybe add a couple of
> more basic questions people might ask, and turn it into a UA Outline/Q&A
> document.*
>
>
>
> Why do I ask this? You can see from the discussions in the group both in
> calls and on the list that uncertainty around these really isn't helpful.
>
>
>
> The 23 April memo from Sidley/Adler does NOT set out a coherent picture of
> how these associations would "look and feel". Instead it responds to a
> bunch of quite specific questions, most of which are helpful, but which
> together only form part of the picture. (
> https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52890082/Sidley-Adler%20-%20Memo%20%28Unincorporated%20Associations%29.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1430069090000&api=v2
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_download_attachments_52890082_Sidley-2DAdler-2520-2D-2520Memo-2520-2528Unincorporated-2520Associations-2529.pdf-3Fversion-3D1-26modificationDate-3D1430069090000-26api-3Dv2&d=AwMFaQ&c=Od00qP2XTg0tXf_H69-T2w&r=1-1w8mU_eFprE2Nn9QnYf01XIV88MOwkXwHYEbF2Y_8&m=RvmiUE-YoxF3IOA03X7eprk0HqYGpxIs6K1aKEw8MA4&s=s16V25nrICJ9moKAbzrtSXW5lyJK_Jr_yesKZ__g8r4&e=>
> )
>
>
>
> I am absolutely convinced that we have to be really really clear and open
> about what these associations would do, what they would look like, how they
> would sit alongside the SOs and ACs, not envelope them.
>
>
>
> In the absence of clarity from us on this point, we are simply asking for
> confusion or making space for misdirection and F.U.D.
>
>
>
> Because I am not from California, I can't write this myself.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> Jordan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Jordan Carter
>
> Chief Executive
> *InternetNZ*
>
> 04 495 2118 (office) | +64 21 442 649 (mob)
> jordan at internetnz.net.nz
> Skype: jordancarter
>
> *A better world through a better Internet *
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jordan Carter
> Chief Executive, InternetNZ
>
> +64-21-442-649 | jordan at internetnz.net.nz
>
> Sent on the run, apologies for brevity
>
>
>
> --
> Jordan Carter
> Chief Executive, InternetNZ
>
> +64-21-442-649 | jordan at internetnz.net.nz
>
> Sent on the run, apologies for brevity
>
>
>
>
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