[Acct-Legal] URGENT: Call tonight 40min

Fri May 1 21:47:37 UTC 2015

Rosemary and Holly can both join a call at 8 p.m. eastern.  We will have our memo on the UAs out to you in the next few minutes, so suggest we go with the later time.  This will give the CCWG members some time to review as well (hopefully).

Please send an invite for that time.

-Josh

JOSHUA HOFHEIMER
Sidley Austin LLP
+1.213.896.6061 (LA direct)
+1.650.565.7561 (PA direct)
+1.323.708.2405 (cell)
jhofheimer at sidley.com<mailto:jhofheimer at sidley.com>
www.sidley.com<http://www.sidley.com/>
[http://www.sidley.com/files/upload/signatures/SA-autosig.png]<http://www.sidley.com/> SIDLEY AUSTIN LLP

From: ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org [mailto:ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 2:33 PM
To: ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org
Subject: Re: [Acct-Legal] URGENT: Call tonight 40min

Sorry, but I am not available to attend a meeting in 40 minutes.  I could attend at 8 PM ET (5 PM Pacific).

Rosemary

From: ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 2:27 PM
To: ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org>
Cc: Brenda Brewer; stevedelbianco; Thomas Rickert; Cheryl Langdon-Orr
Subject: [Acct-Legal] URGENT: Call tonight 40min
Importance: High

Dear all,
I'm writing on behalf of Leon. Please confirm ASAP if you are available for a call tonight either in 40min (6PM ET / 22:00 UTC) or at 8PM ET / midnight UTC.
We will need to schedule immediately if the firms and subteam are available.
Thank you
Grace

From: Grace Abuhamad <grace.abuhamad at icann.org<mailto:grace.abuhamad at icann.org>>
Date: Friday, May 1, 2015 at 3:08 PM
To: ccwg-accountability5 <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org>>
Cc: stevedelbianco <sdelbianco at netchoice.org<mailto:sdelbianco at netchoice.org>>, Thomas Rickert <thomas at rickert.net<mailto:thomas at rickert.net>>, Cheryl Langdon-Orr <langdonorr at gmail.com<mailto:langdonorr at gmail.com>>, Brenda Brewer <brenda.brewer at icann.org<mailto:brenda.brewer at icann.org>>
Subject: Need confirmation Re: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: The need for more info on Uninc Assos

Leon -
Please confirm whether or not you would like to host this meeting today at 22:00 UTC (6PM Eastern). I will need to know within the hour in order for us to set up the teleconferencing services.
Thank you,
Grace

From: ccwg-accountability5 <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org>>
Reply-To: ccwg-accountability5 <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org>>
Date: Friday, May 1, 2015 at 1:18 PM
To: ccwg-accountability5 <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org>>, ccwg-accountability5 <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org>>
Cc: stevedelbianco <sdelbianco at netchoice.org<mailto:sdelbianco at netchoice.org>>, Thomas Rickert <thomas at rickert.net<mailto:thomas at rickert.net>>, Cheryl Langdon-Orr <langdonorr at gmail.com<mailto:langdonorr at gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: The need for more info on Uninc Assos

If 6pm eastern works on the Legal Sub-Team side please have ICANN staff circulate a calendar invite.

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________________________________
From: ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 12:10:50 PM
To: 'ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org<mailto:'ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org>'
Cc: stevedelbianco; Thomas Rickert; Cheryl Langdon-Orr
Subject: Re: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: The need for more info on Uninc Assos
Counsel have been working on revisions to the questions posed and answered on April 23 concerning UAs, adding a description of the proposed use of UAs, responding to Chris Disspain's question, and attaching a sample of Articles of Association.  Sidley has Adler drafts for review as of last night.  I think the revised document will be helpful to address the concerns raised in this thread.  I suggest that we get that to you before any call.

I can do a call at 3:30 PM and later today.

Rosemary

From: ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 7:46 AM
To: ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org>
Cc: stevedelbianco; Thomas Rickert; Cheryl Langdon-Orr
Subject: Re: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: The need for more info on Uninc Assos

I can participate this afternoon and evening (NY time).  The weekend is basically shot.  Tomorrow is difficult after 11 am New York time as I have a birthday brunch with my son followed by a birthday party for my nephew, and travel to/from both.  Sunday morning I have an 8:30 am flight to San Diego for the International Trademark Association Annual Meeting.

Greg

On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:57 AM, List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org>> wrote:
Thanks David.

Jordan, Mathieu, Thomas, Cheryl, Steve, Becky?

Saludos,

León

Enviado desde el móvil.
Errores tipográficos son culpa del tecladito y mis dedos gordos.

El may 1, 2015, a las 7:36 AM, List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org>> escribió:
I could participate at 6pm US eastern time today and most of weekend.

David McAuley

From:ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 8:19 AM
To: ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org>
Cc: Thomas Rickert; stevedelbianco; Cheryl Langdon-Orr
Subject: Re: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: The need for more info on Uninc Assos

Thanks Holly.

I believe today would be difficult but would like to hear from others as to which time would also work for them.

Thanks

Saludos,

León

Enviado desde el móvil.
Errores tipográficos son culpa del tecladito y mis dedos gordos.

El may 1, 2015, a las 6:53 AM, List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org>> escribió:

Hi Leon, let me check with Rosemary.   Are you looking to do this later today?  We could potentially do this in the late afternoon.  Around 6 eastern.  Holly

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________________________________
From:ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 06:29:18 AM
To: ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org>; Thomas Rickert; Jordan Carter; Mathieu Weill; Greg Shatan; stevedelbianco; Cheryl Langdon-Orr; Becky Burr
Subject: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: The need for more info on Uninc Assos
Counsel,

When would you be able to hold a call to help clarify the doubts around UAs interaction and general panorama on them?

A one hour conference should be enough I think.

Best regards ,

León

Enviado desde el móvil.
Errores tipográficos son culpa del tecladito y mis dedos gordos.

Inicio del mensaje reenviado:
De: Jordan Carter <jordan at internetnz.net.nz<mailto:jordan at internetnz.net.nz>>
Fecha: 1 de mayo de 2015, 5:36:41 AM CDT
Para: Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill at afnic.fr<mailto:mathieu.weill at afnic.fr>>
Cc: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>>, Thomas Rickert <rickert at anwaelte.de<mailto:rickert at anwaelte.de>>, León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <leonfelipe at sanchez.mx<mailto:leonfelipe at sanchez.mx>>, Becky Burr <Becky.Burr at neustar.biz<mailto:Becky.Burr at neustar.biz>>, Cheryl Langdon-Orr <langdonorr at gmail.com<mailto:langdonorr at gmail.com>>, stevedelbianco <sdelbianco at netchoice.org<mailto:sdelbianco at netchoice.org>>, ACCT-Staff <acct-staff at icann.org<mailto:acct-staff at icann.org>>
Asunto: Re: The need for more info on Uninc Assos
It isn't about questions, Mathieu. It is about painting the picture of the reality of how this would actually work.

I'm starting to think the best way to resolve that would be a half hour teleconference between us and the legal people. To flesh out how the model would work and write it down.

J.

On Friday, 1 May 2015, Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill at afnic.fr<mailto:mathieu.weill at afnic.fr>> wrote:
Hi all,

I support as well. I'll leave interaction with lawyers to leon but we would certainly help by starting to point out the questions the community would need answers to ?

Jordan how would you frame them ?
Mathieu Weill
---------------
Depuis mon mobile, désolé pour le style

Le 1 mai 2015 à 06:12, Jordan Carter <jordan at internetnz.net.nz<mailto:jordan at internetnz.net.nz>> a écrit :
That's just one example...

Leon, how quickly could we do this?

J

On Friday, 1 May 2015, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>> wrote:
I agree 100%.  The overarching criticism of the first CWG report was that it was "too complex" and "lacked detail."  Initially I couldn't understand this criticism, because these appeared mutually exclusive.  I've come to understand that lack of detail leads to lack of clarity and lack of clarity makes it difficult to  grasp the concepts, and concepts that can't quite be grasped appear complex.

Add to this the tendency of some (many?) in the community to insert dynamite into any crack in a proposal they don't favor and then point to the impending explosion....

For a more direct example, look at the recent exchanges involving Chris Disspain, Jordan and myself.

Greg

On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 11:33 PM, Jordan Carter <jordan at internetnz.net.nz<mailto:jordan at internetnz.net.nz>> wrote:
Hi team (Co-chairs, Rapporteurs, ACCT staff and Greg)

I feel like I am beating my head against a wall on this but: WE NEED to present more information URGENTLY about the unincorporated association concept.

My request would be that we ask the lawyers to add a page of "flavour" and summary about the UAs to the 23 April memo and maybe add a couple of more basic questions people might ask, and turn it into a UA Outline/Q&A document.

Why do I ask this? You can see from the discussions in the group both in calls and on the list that uncertainty around these really isn't helpful.

The 23 April memo from Sidley/Adler does NOT set out a coherent picture of how these associations would "look and feel". Instead it responds to a bunch of quite specific questions, most of which are helpful, but which together only form part of the picture. (https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52890082/Sidley-Adler%20-%20Memo%20%28Unincorporated%20Associations%29.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1430069090000&api=v2<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_download_attachments_52890082_Sidley-2DAdler-2520-2D-2520Memo-2520-2528Unincorporated-2520Associations-2529.pdf-3Fversion-3D1-26modificationDate-3D1430069090000-26api-3Dv2&d=AwMFaQ&c=Od00qP2XTg0tXf_H69-T2w&r=1-1w8mU_eFprE2Nn9QnYf01XIV88MOwkXwHYEbF2Y_8&m=RvmiUE-YoxF3IOA03X7eprk0HqYGpxIs6K1aKEw8MA4&s=s16V25nrICJ9moKAbzrtSXW5lyJK_Jr_yesKZ__g8r4&e=>)

I am absolutely convinced that we have to be really really clear and open about what these associations would do, what they would look like, how they would sit alongside the SOs and ACs, not envelope them.

In the absence of clarity from us on this point, we are simply asking for confusion or making space for misdirection and F.U.D.

Because I am not from California, I can't write this myself.

Thoughts?

Jordan

--
Jordan Carter

Chief Executive
InternetNZ

04 495 2118 (office) | +64 21 442 649<tel:%2B64%2021%20442%20649> (mob)
jordan at internetnz.net.nz<mailto:jordan at internetnz.net.nz>
Skype: jordancarter

A better world through a better Internet

--
Jordan Carter
Chief Executive, InternetNZ

+64-21-442-649<tel:%2B64-21-442-649> | jordan at internetnz.net.nz<mailto:jordan at internetnz.net.nz>

Sent on the run, apologies for brevity

--
Jordan Carter
Chief Executive, InternetNZ

+64-21-442-649<tel:%2B64-21-442-649> | jordan at internetnz.net.nz<mailto:jordan at internetnz.net.nz>

Sent on the run, apologies for brevity

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