[ChineseGP] 答复: [Japanesegp] 答?: 答?: Characters likely to cause offence
王伟
wangwei at cnic.cn
Tue May 19 03:54:07 UTC 2015
Dear Jacques and Hotta San
Thanks for your effort on this issue.
I agree with Hotta that CJK should focus on the coordination of a
unified variant table and generation rule first.
If ICANN will set up an evaluation process to address this issue,
CJK would like to join and follow. Anyway, it is out of CJK's current
working scope now.
Regards
Wang wei
-----ÓʼþÔ¼þ-----
·¢¼þÈË: hotta at jprs.co.jp [mailto:hotta at jprs.co.jp]
·¢ËÍʱ¼ä: 2015Äê5ÔÂ19ÈÕ 0:21
ÊÕ¼þÈË: Subrenat, Jean-Jacques
³ËÍ: Joe Zhang; wangwei at cnic.cn; KoreanGP at icann.org; ChineseGP at icann.org;
JapaneseGP at icann.org
Ö÷Ìâ: Re: [Japanesegp] [ChineseGP] ´ð?: ´ð?: Characters likely to cause
offence
Thanks for your clear explanation, Jean-Jacques.
I agree with your discussion.
I think we are not thinking in a different way.
I just wanted to say that "if someone can decide, with reasonable reason,
what characters should be removed from the repertoire, I will not object
that". I believe GPs should not be responsible for such decision. As you
explained, those two characters have a deep innocent history and CJK folks
will think such characters are important good characters for their lives.
However, I think it will not be CGP/JGP/KGP's responsiblility to prove that.
Regards,
Hiro
On Mon, 18 May 2015 18:01:02 +0200 (CEST) "Subrenat, Jean-Jacques"
<jjs at dyalog.net> wrote:
> Hiro-san,
>
> there seems to be a misunderstanding:
> - you are suggesting "removal of characters",
> - but in fact I made the point that we should keep the 2 characters under
discussion, precisely because they have a long documented history, way
before they were misused, for about 2 decades, by the Nazi regime.
>
> A further reason for keeping these 2 characters is that, in spite of their
misuse between roughly 1930 to 1945 in Europe, their use as cultural and
religious references has been continuous for more than 2000 years, mainly in
Asia. This continues to be true today.
>
> Finally, I would like to make clear that my suggestion of a mechanism for
removal applies to characters which may be considered offensive TODAY, but
in my mind this does not apply to the 2 characters discussed in the thread.
>
> Best regards,
> Jean-Jacques.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Mail original -----
> De: "HiroHOTTA" <hotta at jprs.co.jp>
> A: "Jean-Jacques Subrenat" <jjs at dyalog.net>
> Cc: "Joe Zhang" <joezhang43 at hotmail.com>, wangwei at cnic.cn,
> KoreanGP at icann.org, ChineseGP at icann.org, JapaneseGP at icann.org
> Envoye: Lundi 18 Mai 2015 17:33:44
> Objet: Re: [Japanesegp] [ChineseGP] ´ð?: ´ð?: Characters likely to
> cause offence
>
> Hello, Jean-Jacques.
>
> I personally don't object the removal of characters that are very
> offensive to some others. I think we can follow the procedure if such
> procedure is globally established and employed by ICANN.
>
> I am asking ICANN whether such removal should be solved by RootLGR
> project (i.e., each GP or IP) or not.
>
> Regards,
> Hiro
>
> On Fri, 15 May 2015 10:27:12 +0200 (CEST) "Subrenat, Jean-Jacques"
> <jjs at dyalog.net> wrote:
> > Hello Hiro-san,
> >
> > thank you for your response. It might be worth considering an
alternative: include such scripts, unless there is a documented opposition,
based on historical, linguistic or technical factors.
> >
> > In practical terms, it may be useful to draw up a list of characters
which present similar problems. This list would be sent out to our
membership lists (all C, J, K) for comment within a one-month period. Those
characters meeting no opposition could then be included; those presenting a
problem would then be either submitted to further examination, or rejected,
and the rationale for either decision would be documented. Also, it may be
useful to provide a mechanism for periodic review.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Jean-Jacques.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Mail original -----
> > De: "HiroHOTTA" <hotta at jprs.co.jp>
> > A: "Jean-Jacques Subrenat" <jjs at dyalog.net>
> > Cc: "Joe Zhang" <joezhang43 at hotmail.com>, "Íõ?" <wangwei at cnic.cn>,
> > KoreanGP at icann.org, ChineseGP at icann.org, JapaneseGP at icann.org
> > Envoye: Jeudi 14 Mai 2015 18:38:31
> > Objet: Re: [Japanesegp] [ChineseGP] ´ð?: ´ð?: Characters likely to
> > cause offence
> >
> > I may agree to that in principle.
> >
> > But here I just want to say who should think about that and who is
> > responsible for that?
> >
> > If it's within GP's mandate, GP cannot afford that.
> > If it's within IP's mandate, further question may be 'who can decide
> > some specific characters should not listed in MSR' ?
> >
> > Hiro
> >
> > On Thu, 14 May 2015 11:19:40 +0200 (CEST) "Subrenat, Jean-Jacques"
> > <jjs at dyalog.net> wrote:
> > > Hello All,
> > >
> > > the discussion on …d and ? must abide by some wider principle. In this
case, the principle of historic precedence should be respected: the Sanskrit
svastika, which can be traced back at least to the Neolithic, is
unquestionably more ancient than any more recent use of this script, or its
tragic misuse by the Nazi regime in the first half of the 20th century.
> > >
> > > I would therefore urge that we keep the historic Sanskrit script
present in the list, insofar as it has been adopted in Chinese, Japanese or
Korean usage, for instance in religious or other texts.
> > >
> > > To be perfectly clear, by taking this position of respecting the
original Sanskrit script, I am in no way condoning the despicable Nazi
regime that later employed this as its trademark.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Jean-Jacques.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Mail original -----
> > > De: "Joe Zhang" <joezhang43 at hotmail.com>
> > > A: "Íõ?" <wangwei at cnic.cn>, "Yoshiro YONEYA"
> > > <yoshiro.yoneya at jprs.co.jp>, "Chris' 'Dillon" <c.dillon at ucl.ac.uk>
> > > Cc: ChineseGP at icann.org, KoreanGP at icann.org, JapaneseGP at icann.org
> > > Envoye: Mercredi 13 Mai 2015 14:18:33
> > > Objet: [ChineseGP] ´ð?: ´ð?: Characters likely to cause offence
> > >
> > > Besides…dand ?, there would be many "sensitive" even "dirty"
characters in the repertoire. I agree with Wang Wei, let's leave such issue
to IP or next working stage.
> > > BTW. Sorry for not being able to attend the important meeting. I
believe your guys will come up with good result.
> > > The best regards,
> > >
> > > Zhang
> > >
> > > -----?¼þÔ¼þ-----
> > > ?¼þÈË: chinesegp-bounces at icann.org
[mailto:chinesegp-bounces at icann.org] ´ú±í Íõ?
> > > ?ËÍ??: 2015Äê5ÔÂ12ÈÕ 10:35
> > > ÊÕ¼þÈË: 'Yoshiro YONEYA'; 'Dillon, Chris'
> > > ³ËÍ: KoreanGP at icann.org; ChineseGP at icann.org; JapaneseGP at icann.org
> > > Ö÷?: [ChineseGP] ´ð?: Characters likely to cause offence
> > >
> > > I guess both of …dand ? (swastika, ????????) were imported into
Chinese characters from ancient India Buddhism hundreds years ago Both of
them mean something like luck or fortune in east Asia. Most western people
don¡¯t know them until one of them was borrowed by Nazi.
> > >
> > > What about leave the problem to IP or policy guys. Let's finish
repertoire, variant coordination and generation rules first.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----?¼þÔ¼þ-----
> > > ?¼þÈË: chinesegp-bounces at icann.org
> > > [mailto:chinesegp-bounces at icann.org] ´ú±í Yoshiro YONEYA
> > > ?ËÍ??: 2015Äê5ÔÂ12ÈÕ 9:55
> > > ÊÕ¼þÈË: Dillon, Chris
> > > ³ËÍ: ChineseGP at icann.org; KoreanGP at icann.org; JapaneseGP at icann.org
> > > Ö÷?: Re: [ChineseGP] Characters likely to cause offence
> > >
> > > Dear Chris-san,
> > >
> > > > I suspect there may be other characters in there that could
> > > > cause offence, but ? 5350 could be horribly abused. I realize that
the character it represents is used innocently in temples.
> > >
> > > The reason why this character (U+5350) is in J-LGR-2 is that this
> > > is defined as variant of U+534D in C-LGR-1. U+534D is in
> > > J-LGR-1 repertoire, so it was integrated into J-LGR-2 by proposed
integration algorithm.
> > >
> > > As you see in J-LGR-2.xlsx, U+5350 is marked as (o) or (b), so it will
never appear on Root zone if it is used in applied-for string as Japanese
IDN TLD.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > --
> > > Yoshiro YONEYA <yoshiro.yoneya at jprs.co.jp>
> > >
> > > On Mon, 11 May 2015 14:02:14 +0000 "Dillon, Chris"
<c.dillon at ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dear Yoneya-san,
> > > >
> > > > I mentioned in my last email that one of the things I found in
J-LGR-2.xlsx was of a more serious nature.
> > > >
> > > > I suspect there may be other characters in there that could
> > > > cause offence, but ? 5350 could be horribly abused. I realize that
the character it represents is used innocently in temples.
> > > >
> > > > It is not our responsibility to make decisions about cases such
> > > > as this and as far as I know, no part of the existing system
> > > > deals with them. However, having observed long discussion over cases
such as .xxx and .sucks, alarm bells do go off and one feels one should draw
5350 to the attention of colleagues.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Chris.
> > > > --
> > > > Research Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for Digital
> > > > Humanities, UCL, Gower St, London WC1E 6BT Tel +44 20 7679 1599
> > > > (int
> > > > 31599) www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
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