[Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt2] recording, Attendance, AC recording and AC Chat for New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Sub Team – Track 2 – Legal/Regulatory Issues 13 April 2017

Thu Apr 13 22:41:49 UTC 2017

Dear All,

Please find the attendance and recording of the call attached to this email.
The AC recording and AC Chat are listed below for the New gTLD Subsequent
Procedures Sub Team – Track 2 – Legal/Regulatory Issues held on Thursday, 13
April 2017 at 21:00 UTC. 

Adobe Connect recording (audio and visual):
<https://participate.icann.org/p96pyjrn60g/?OWASP_CSRFTOKEN=436763efcaabf56f
d0227f108d44d3c705d81ed2dd669eac5ee8f7b29a7d3189>
https://participate.icann.org/p96pyjrn60g/

The recordings of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:
<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar>
http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar

** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **

Mailing list archives:  <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt2>
http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt2

Agenda Wiki page:  <https://community.icann.org/x/B7HRAw>
https://community.icann.org/x/B7HRAw

Thank you.

Kind regards,

Terri 

-------------------------------

Adobe Connect chat transcript for 13 April 2017

      Terri Agnew:Welcome to the New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Sub Team –
Track 2 – Legal/Regulatory Issues on Thursday, 13 April 2017 at 21:00 UTC.

  Terri Agnew:wiki agenda page:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_B
7HRAw
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_
B7HRAw&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpC
IgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=hYPNbusNs1aZNiWMt5YLdxDjanNXesFnRf6fmhomND
w&s=vm5gV3gjsKgjXRvhkTmcfU1EovHJOj1MvA2dolJuMT4&e>
&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXh
FzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=hYPNbusNs1aZNiWMt5YLdxDjanNXesFnRf6fmhomNDw&s=vm
5gV3gjsKgjXRvhkTmcfU1EovHJOj1MvA2dolJuMT4&e= 

  Michael Flemming:Terri, I think Phil Buckingham is also only on the phone

  Susan Payne:hi, I'm trying to get a dial out

  Heather Forrest:I had trouble with the Adobe link in my calendar entry,
but then the reminder email sent 2 minutes before we started had a link that
worked just fine

  Heather Forrest:(sorry, not like that info is useful to Kathy, who isn't
in Adobe)

  Terri Agnew:Thanks Heather, I will send another email to all JUST In case
(including Kathy)

  Steve Chan:Michael, happy to assist.

  Terri Agnew:@Susan, if I can help dial out, please chat me your telephone
number (sending you a private AC chat)

  Susan Payne:thanks Terri, now sorted

  Terri Agnew:@Susan, thank you for the update

  Kathy Kleiman:Finally made it in!

  Steve Coates:Can't hear you, sir!

  Paul McGrady:How about "alleged" or "proposed"?

  Heather Forrest:Based on Phil's comment and Michael's reply, we need to
update the language in teh document on screen

  Paul McGrady:Perfect

  Heather Forrest:Paul, sorry

  Paul McGrady:GNSO Policy on new gTLDs actually didn't prohibit or even
mention closed generics.

  Paul McGrady:No problem Heidi, er Heather...

  Heather Forrest:you bet, buddy 

  Kathy Kleiman:Many drafters of the Applicant Guidebook felt very strongly
that Closed Generics were barred by the rules.

  Paul McGrady:Why were non of the pro-closed generics comments from the
last round included in this document?  Seems either a big oversight or
one-sided designed to lead us all to a particular conclusion.

  Susan Payne:@Kathy, that might have been the intention of some, but I
don't think that was what the wording of the AGB said

  Kathy Kleiman:First, belatedly, tx you for the opportunity to join you
today!

  Kathy Kleiman:@Susan, the response in 2012 and 2013 was considerable!

  Kathy
Kleiman:https://iccwbo.org/publication/exp_499_icann_116_expert-determinatio
n/

  Kathy Kleiman:I think the determination stands on its own - worth reading!

  Susan Payne:@Kathy, what do you mean the response in 2012/2013?

  Kathy Kleiman:The letters and articles written in 2012 and 2013 - some
circulated earlier today.

  Kathy Kleiman:Many with group signatures.

  Susan Payne:yes but my point is that is not what the AGB says, that is
what some people wrote after the event surely

  carlos Gutiérrez:sorry butMcGrady does not come through right

  carlos Gutiérrez:terrible echo

  avri doria:Even if we don't reopen it, we need to be explicit. One of the
deficits in the previous policy is that we were not specific about approving
closed generics, we just assumed that of course they would be ok.

  Heather Forrest:I think Carlos means that Paul's mic cuts in and out

  avri doria:note: we did not even have a name for them back then.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):indeed Avri 

  Paul McGrady:+1 Avri

  Paul McGrady:But we are only seeing what 1 side has said.  Why aren't we
looking at what the other side said?

  Michael Flemming:We have gone over the Pros in the last call. Could you be
clear what the other side would be?

  Paul McGrady:@kathy - the Board never said that

  Terri Agnew:@Carlos, I also sent you a private AC Chat, try logging out
and back into adobe connect, maybe even try a differrent browser to see if
echo clears up

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):not sure we have any consensus on that Kathy... I
don't agree they are " by definition " Good

  Steve Chan:@Paul, the NGPC was empowered by the Board to pass resolutions.
Therefore, NGPC resolutions are ICANN Board resolutions.

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):rather that this needs discussion 

  Paul McGrady:@Kathy - that was the pre-round 1 model

  Greg Shatan:It might be a good idea to prepare a 

  Greg Shatan:pros document that parallels the cons document in the AC room.

  Kathy Kleiman:ICANN bans closed generic gTLDs, for nowKevin Murphy, June
24, 2015, 09:28:31 (UTC), Domain Policy -- ICANN has slapped a de facto ban
on so-called “closed generic” gTLDs, at least for the remaining 2012 round
applicants. 6/24/2015

  Paul McGrady:+1 Greg.  Having them side by side would be terrific.  THis
document, accidently I think, seems super-one-sided.

  Terri Agnew:@Carlos, did logging back in help?

  Susan Payne:thats a headline from a blog, not a fact.  please stop
mischaracterising Kathy

  Greg Shatan:I'll go back and look at the prior document.

  Paul McGrady:@Kathy - Kevin's headline isn't the same thing as a Board
resolution,  No need to revisit, I suppose, because the Chair just read the
actual resolution which defers, not rejects

  Kathy Kleiman:Dozens of gTLDs (maybe more) became open. I'm not sure why
this is a controversial fact.

  Paul McGrady:@Kathy - closed generic applicants throwing in the towel on
the issue in order to preserve what they could from their application costs
isn't the same thing as the Board rejecting closed generics.  The options -
as read by the Chair into the record were, withdraw, capitulate, or be
deferred.

  avri doria:and we are now at the point to which they were defered.

  Paul McGrady:+1 Avri

  Kathy Kleiman:what's the question again?

  Steve Chan:The Code of Conduct is not loaded into the AC room...please
give us a moment.

  Kathy Kleiman:It's Specification 9 in new gTLD Registry Agreements

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):my AC has bad lag today...  sorry 

  Julie Hedlund:Unsynced

  Steve Chan:Specification 9 is page 282

  Michael Flemming:So, I think the main point here is on 6 in relatiomn to
the comment made.

  Rubens Kuhl:Although not always mentioned, closed generics can bring
inovation as well to the DNS. .frogans is one example of the usage type that
can go in that direction. 

  Paul McGrady:@Kathy - I love him, but Michele's business is selling second
level domain names, so closed generics are contrary to his business model,
but that doesn't make them against the public interest

  Susan Payne 2:the difficulty is that all of these arguments assume that
all we want are a whole series of .com alternatives.  where is the
innovation in that

  Liz Brodzinski:+1 Susan

  Rubens Kuhl:So the question is how to close the door to misuse without
forbidding possible good uses. 

  Paul McGrady:@Kathy - no competitors were blocked out of closed generics -
all were welcome to apply for them

  Kiran malancharuvil:Agree with Paul and Susan Payne 2 (identity theft??)  

  Greg Shatan:The basic argument seems to be that TLDs shouldn't be treated
like second level domains.

  Emily Barabas:Michele's full blog post is available here:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.internetnews.me_201
3_02_23_5-2Dreasons-2Dwhy-2Dclosed-2Dgeneric-2Dnew-2Dgtlds-2D
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.internetnews.me_20
13_02_23_5-2Dreasons-2Dwhy-2Dclosed-2Dgeneric-2Dnew-2Dgtlds-2D&d=DwIFaQ&c=Fm
Y1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AI
gn-H4xR2EBk&m=hYPNbusNs1aZNiWMt5YLdxDjanNXesFnRf6fmhomNDw&s=ZmuH0rj5SVrKDDRF
cJU6_7bM-ckCEurMrS6o1iYztrU&e>
&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXh
FzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=hYPNbusNs1aZNiWMt5YLdxDjanNXesFnRf6fmhomNDw&s=Zm
uH0rj5SVrKDDRFcJU6_7bM-ckCEurMrS6o1iYztrU&e=  should-be-opposed/

  Susan Payne 2:lost connection Kiran

  Emily
Barabas:https://www.internetnews.me/2013/02/23/5-reasons-why-closed-generic-
new-gtlds- should-be-opposed

  Rubens Kuhl:Also of notice is that most of the anger against closed
generics came specifically regarding .book. 

  Emily Barabas:pardon the broken link --
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.internetnews.me_201
3_02_23_5-2Dreasons-2Dwhy-2Dclosed-2Dgeneric-2Dnew-2Dgtlds-2Dshould-2Dbe-2Do
pposed_
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.internetnews.me_20
13_02_23_5-2Dreasons-2Dwhy-2Dclosed-2Dgeneric-2Dnew-2Dgtlds-2Dshould-2Dbe-2D
opposed_&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSF
pCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=hYPNbusNs1aZNiWMt5YLdxDjanNXesFnRf6fmhom
NDw&s=kZf9cyi03zgwTFXoIUOQTsua6pvC5PTdsyD8ZvJV3OY&e>
&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXh
FzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=hYPNbusNs1aZNiWMt5YLdxDjanNXesFnRf6fmhomNDw&s=kZ
f9cyi03zgwTFXoIUOQTsua6pvC5PTdsyD8ZvJV3OY&e= 

  Kathy Kleiman:@Paul - of course we are closing off competitors -- to basic
generic words that no one would be able to trademark as generic to their
goods, services and industries.

  Kathy Kleiman:Tx for including me!

  Rubens Kuhl:@Kathy, Apple sounds pretty generic to me... (ducks)

  Susan Payne 2:Rubens - only for apples

  Paul McGrady:@Kathy - all were free to apply.  

  Terri Agnew:Next call: New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Sub Team – Track 2 –
Legal/Regulatory Issues will take place on Thursday, 27 April 2017 at 21:00
UTC.

  avri doria:we will of course need to talk about this issue until we fnd a
way forward.

  Greg Shatan:Competition shouldn

  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):bye for now.... yes indeed Avri 

  Robert Burlingame:Bye

  avri doria:bye & thanks

  Greg Shatan:Sorry will complete thought on list.

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