[Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Notes and Action Items - New gTLDSubsequent Procedures PDP Work Track 5 - 04 April 2018
Liz Williams
liz.williams at auda.org.au
Thu Apr 5 23:48:08 UTC 2018
Hello everyone
I have been following carefully this thread of conversations about geographic names and I think we need to step back a little. It may be helpful to come up with all kinds of lists but what for?
The only utility of lists is to ensure that whatever policy we come to a consensus on can be used as independent, objective maps against which to a) advise applicants about what may or may not be possible; b) assist evaluators in assessing the veracity of applications and c) as compliance tools to ensure correct implementation of the registry contract. “Lists” designed to prevent, constrain, limit just for the sake of being limited is, I don’t think, where we want to be for the next generation of the Internet. And we may, unwittingly, prevent the very opportunities we seek for social, cultural, linguistic communities to represent themselves.
Could I urge us to remember that, in our work, we also need to focus on a key element of ICANN’s mission & core values (https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/governance/bylaws-en/#article1) which is to promote innovation and competition.
Liz
On 5 Apr 2018, at 9:31 pm, Harish Chowdhary <harish at nixi.in<mailto:harish at nixi.in>> wrote:
Dear All,
As per Manual for the national standardization of geographical names United Nations Group of Experts on Geographical Names Defining a geographical name
The United Nations Group of Experts on Geographical Names defines a geographical name as a name applied to a feature on Earth (Glossary, 216). In general, a geographical name is the proper name (a specific word, combination of words, or expression) used consistently in language to refer to a particular place, feature or area having a recognizable identity on the surface of the Earth. Named features include:
1. Populated places (for example, cities, towns, villages)
2. Civil divisions (for example, States, cantons, districts, boroughs)
3. Natural features (for example, streams, mountains, capes, lakes, seas)
4. Constructed features (for example, dams, airports, highways)
5. Unbounded places or areas that have specific local (often religious) meaning (for example, grazing lands, fishing areas, sacred areas)
A geographical name may also be referred to as a topographical name or toponym (a term that in a wider context can also include extraterrestrial names, such as names applied to features on the Moon or on other planets).
To determine what languages to include we may use the status of each language in each country where it is used in the Status element of a language . The first is an estimate of the overall development versus endangerment of the language using the EGIDS (Expanded Graded Intergenerational Disruption Scale) scale (Lewis and Simons 2010). The second is a categorization of the Official Recognition given to a language within the country.
The EGIDS consists of 13 levels with each higher number on the scale representing a greater level of disruption to the intergenerational transmission of the language.
Link : https://www.ethnologue.com/about/language-status
ICANN is also using this scale in Lable Generation Panels to determine Lable Generaion Rules and including languages upto level 5.
Link : https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/proposal-latin-lgr-15may17-en.pdf
Thanks,
Harish Chowdhary,
Technology Analyst,
National Internet Exchange of India
ISOC IETF FELLOW
inSIG 2017 FELLOW
www.nixi.in<http://nixi.in/> | www.indiaig.in<http://indiaig.in/>
From: Yrjö Länsipuro <yrjo_lansipuro at hotmail.com<mailto:yrjo_lansipuro at hotmail.com>>
Sent: Thu, 5 Apr 2018 16:13:44 GMT+0530
To: Jaap Akkerhuis <jaap at NLnetLabs.nl<mailto:jaap at NLnetLabs.nl>>, "gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org>" <gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org>>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Notes and Action Items - New gTLDSubsequent Procedures PDP Work Track 5 - 04 April 2018
Hi all,
The UN Group of Experts on Geographic Names (UNGEGN) list is rather more straightforward and unequivocal about which languages are "official" in each country (presumably based on information from UN member countries themselves)
It doesn't go as deep as ISO lists - no mention of Frisian, or of status of three different variants Sámi in certain municipalities of Finnish Lapland, for that matter.
For our purposes, the UNGEGN list should be enough, and IMHO relevant for country names as for ISO is for their codes.
https://unstats.un.org/unsd/geoinfo/UNGEGN/docs/26th-gegn-docs/WP/WP54_UNGEGN%20WG%20Country%20Names%20Document%202011.pdf
unstats.un.org<https://<a%20href=>/unsd/geoinfo/UNGEGN/docs/26th-gegn-docs/WP/WP54_UNGEGN%20WG%20Country%20Names%20Document%202011.pdf" target="_blank" target='_blank' rel=external>UNGEGN list of country names - the United Nations - UNSD
unstats.un.org<http://unstats.un.org/>
UNGEGN List of Country Names Introduction During its 16th Session (New York, 1992), the United Nations Group of Experts on Geographical Names (UNGEGN) re- convened its working group to establish the official forms of country names.
UNGEGN website: <https://unstats.un.org/UNSD/geoinfo/UNGEGN/default.html> https://unstats.un.org/UNSD/geoinfo/UNGEGN/default.html
United Nations Group of Experts on Geographical Names - UNGEGN<https://unstats.un.org/UNSD/geoinfo/UNGEGN/default.html>
unstats.un.org<http://unstats.un.org>
In 1959, the Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) paved the way for a small group of experts to meet and provide technical recommendations on standardizing geographical names at the national and international levels.
________________________________
From: Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces at icann.org>> on behalf of Jaap Akkerhuis <jaap at NLnetLabs.nl<mailto:jaap at NLnetLabs.nl>>
Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2018 12:58 PM
To: gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Notes and Action Items - New gTLD Subsequent Procedures PDP Work Track 5 - 04 April 2018
Annebeth Lange writes:
> Would a possibility be to include only the official language(s) of all
> countries, or would that be too much as well? I agree with Javier that
> UN Languages, plus the official language of the country is the easiest.
> However, it is fairly restricted, as there are many languages in the
> world used extensively by others, to take German and Portuguese as an
> example.
At first sight this seems easy, but I'm afraid it is yet another can
of worms. One needs to define what "Official languages" means.
When the second Edition on of 3166-1 came out in 2006, a columns where
added which contains additional information. The description of this
column is (quoting ISO 3166-1-2006):
- 9 (informative) The alpha-2 ISO 639 code element of each
administrative language of the country (with a dash when the
code element is missing);
- 10 (informative) The alpha-3 (terminological version) ISO
639 code element of each administrative language of the
country (with a dash when the code element is missing);
The term "administrative language" is chosen because there don't seem
to be a list of official languages of a country available.
The path to such a list will be way more complicated then one hopes.
Here are some random problems:
For the Netherlands, the ISO OBP lists in part 1 NLD (Dutch)
only but for part 2 list for a subdivision Frisian as well.
And as far as I know, Frisian can be used as official language
under certain conditions (in court is one of them). The CIA
handbook list a couple more as being used
<https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2098.html#nl>.
The World Factbook — Central Intelligence Agency<https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2098.html#nl>
www.cia.gov<http://www.cia.gov/>
The Office of Public Affairs (OPA) is the single point of contact for all inquiries about the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). We read every letter, fax, or e-mail we receive, and we will convey your comments to CIA officials outside OPA as appropriate.
On the Government site I found an article stating that for the
revision of the constitutions maybe it is time to say
something about the language used
<https://www.government.nl/latest/news/2010/02/12/dutch-language-enshrined-in-the-constitution>.
For India, ISO lists two languages for part 1 (eng, hin), and
part 2 just one (en) while the CIA fact book lists a 14
official languages.
The USA doesn't has an official language and there are regular
heated debates whether there should be one.
I'm afraid that this will lead to yet another extensive discussion but
not a lot of results that can be used in the scope of this work track.
jaap
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