[Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Notes and Action Items -- remarks about ISO 3166 terminology used

Thu Sep 6 11:28:07 UTC 2018

I agree. Following the same idea suggested I would expect to see a Glossary
of terms with clear examples that relate to all specific / technical terms
used in the AGB. It is feasible that some applicants will not have the
adequate knowledge, without professional aid to deal every requirement. I
am also presuming that some introductory procedural visual diagram will be
included, as part of the guiding process for applicants.

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On Thu, 6 Sep 2018 at 01:26, Justine Chew <justine.chew at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am in agreement with Jaap, Nick and Alexander on the need for the AGB to
> contain accurate terms to represent things found externally (such as the
> ISO 3166-1 and ISO 3166-2 standards) and to be consistent throughout when
> referring to the same.
>
> Like you, Alexander, I also usually find it useful to tack on an example
> as a way to reinforce understanding, so perhaps WT5 should consider
> including an example of each by inserting the first entry of each standard
> for each of (i) to (iv) in 2.2.1.4.1 and 2.2.1.4.2 (3) (and wherever else
> is appropriate). After all, examples were included to explain the concept
> of transposition.
>
> Regards,
>
> Justine
> -----
>
>
> On Thu, 6 Sep 2018 at 00:42, Alexander Schubert <alexander at schubert.berlin>
> wrote:
>
>> Jaap,
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree, and therefore I for example usually always try to use these
>> terms:
>>
>>
>>
>> ·         *ISO 3166-1 Alpha-2 Codes*
>>
>> o   these are the 2-letter codes used for ccTLDs, like “DE” for Germany
>>
>> o   these are in Part 1 of “ISO 3166”
>>
>> ·         *ISO 3166-1 Alpha-3 Codes*
>>
>> o   these are the 3-letter codes for countries like “DEU” for Germany
>>
>> o   these are also in Part 1 of “ISO 3166”
>>
>> ·         *ISO 3166-2 Country Subdivision Names  *(NOT the “codes”!)
>>
>> o   These are usually states, provinces, districts, etc
>>
>> o   these are in Part 2 of “ISO 3166”
>>
>>
>>
>> The “ISO 3166-2 Country Subdivisions” also have “codes” – but we do not
>> protect the CODES but rather the NAMES! Example: There is a subdivision
>> “Bayern” in Germany (Bavaria). The “code” is “DE-BY”. But that’s not what
>> we protect. We protect the NAME itself: “Bayern”.
>>
>>
>>
>> It’s one thing how people call these in our working emails. And you are
>> right: we should all be very precise. But we WT members  usually know what
>> is meant. When it comes to the AGB we really need to be SUPER precise – and
>> very consistent! So my suggestion for the use in the AGB:
>>
>>
>>
>> ·         *ISO 3166-1 Alpha-2 Codes  (alternatively:    “alpha-2 codes
>> listed in the ISO 3166-1 standard”)*
>>
>> o   the 2-letter country codes of ISO 3166 Part 1
>>
>> o   these are real “codes” and not “names”
>>
>> ·         *ISO 3166 -1 Alpha-3 Codes  (alternatively:    “alpha-3 codes
>> listed in the ISO 3166-1 standard”)*
>>
>> o   the 3-letter country codes of ISO 3166 Part 1
>>
>> o   these are real “codes” and not “names”
>>
>> ·         *ISO 3166 -2 Country Subdivision Names  (alternatively:
>> “country subdivision names listed in the ISO 3166-2 standard”)*
>>
>> o   Officially called “principal subdivisions of countries“ and located
>> in ISO 3166 Part 2
>>
>> o   Again: here we target the NAME – not the “code”  (we target “Bayern”
>> and not “DE-BY”) – hence we do not say “Country Subdivision Codes” but
>> “Country Subdivision Names”.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The 2012 AGB uses “*sub-national place name, such as a county, province,
>> or state, listed in the ISO 3166-2 standard*” in section 2.2.1.4.2 (3)
>> when it refers to “ISO 3166 -2 Country Subdivision Names”.  ISO calls the
>> CODES (which is not what we want to protect) “codes for identifying
>> principal subdivisions of countries” and in other places “country
>> subdivision codes”. I haven’t found the term “sub-national place name” in
>> official ISO documents. So while it’s clear what is meant – it’s not ISO
>> language. So the targeted strings are in my mind: “Country Subdivision
>> Names” – and usually that column is always called “Subdivision Name”. We
>> might want to consider to not use “sub-national place name” in the AGB
>> anymore.
>>
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Alexander
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces at icann.org]
>> On Behalf Of Jaap Akkerhuis
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2018 3:36 PM
>> To: gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org
>> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Notes and Action Items -- remarks
>> about ISO 3166 terminology used
>>
>>
>>
>> A quick scan of the working document shows rather inconsistent use of ISO
>> 3166 related terms.
>>
>>
>>
>> Quite some of these uses stem from citing the AGB. There is not a lot to
>> do about that, we should not change history too much. But for the current
>> document we could do better I hope.
>>
>>
>>
>> Often one reads things like "codes listed in the ISO 3166-2 standard".
>>
>> What really is meant here is "codes listed in the standard ISO 3166 Part
>> 2". What makes this important is that people are confusing the -2 suffix
>> with the length of the code. We should be more careful in using proper
>> terminology and if one wants to use "3166-1" as a shortcut for "ISO 3166
>> Part 2" it should somewhere be explained.
>>
>>
>>
>> An example of unclear use is a sentence like:
>>
>>
>>
>>                 "meaningful representations of a country or territory
>> name on
>>
>>                 the ISO 3166-2 standard"
>>
>>
>>
>> What is really meant here? Country and territory names appear in ISO
>>
>> 3166 Part one, ISO 3166 Part 2 talks about subdivisions only. (It might
>> be quoted from an old AGB so can't be changed, but it is still confusing),
>>
>>
>>
>> Something like "ISO 3166 3-letter codes, country subdivisions (3166
>> Alpha-2)" becomes quite confusing very fast. in general ISO talks about
>> alpha-3 etc. codes and 3166 Part 1 had alpha-2 and alpha-3 codes. ISO 3166
>> Part 2 is about codes for subdivision codes. These codes are not related to
>> the alpha-3 codes of Part 1 but consist of
>>
>> alpha-2 codes from part 1 followed by "up to 3 characters".
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The working document talks about alpha-3 or 2 codes, 2/3 characters, and
>> 2/3 letter codes etc. Most times they seem to be used denoting the same but
>> I'm not always when non-ASCII codes are involved.
>>
>>
>>
>> I know, it is hard to be consistent it the terminology but it is worth
>> the effort.
>>
>>
>>
>>                 jaap
>>
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