[Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Notes and Action Items -- remarks about ISO 3166 terminology used
Javier Rua
javrua at gmail.com
Thu Sep 6 12:37:40 UTC 2018
Thanks, Alfredo, for your comment.
Javier
On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 7:28 AM Alfredo Calderon <calderon.alfredo at gmail.com>
wrote:
> I agree. Following the same idea suggested I would expect to see a
> Glossary of terms with clear examples that relate to all specific /
> technical terms used in the AGB. It is feasible that some applicants will
> not have the adequate knowledge, without professional aid to deal every
> requirement. I am also presuming that some introductory procedural visual
> diagram will be included, as part of the guiding process for applicants.
>
>
> [image: photo]
> *Alfredo Calderon*
> eLearning Consultant
>
> calderon.alfredo at gmail.com
>
> http://aprendizajedistancia.blogspot.com | Skype: Alfredo_1212
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> On Thu, 6 Sep 2018 at 01:26, Justine Chew <justine.chew at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I am in agreement with Jaap, Nick and Alexander on the need for the AGB
>> to contain accurate terms to represent things found externally (such as the
>> ISO 3166-1 and ISO 3166-2 standards) and to be consistent throughout when
>> referring to the same.
>>
>> Like you, Alexander, I also usually find it useful to tack on an example
>> as a way to reinforce understanding, so perhaps WT5 should consider
>> including an example of each by inserting the first entry of each standard
>> for each of (i) to (iv) in 2.2.1.4.1 and 2.2.1.4.2 (3) (and wherever else
>> is appropriate). After all, examples were included to explain the concept
>> of transposition.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Justine
>> -----
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 6 Sep 2018 at 00:42, Alexander Schubert <alexander at schubert.berlin>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Jaap,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I agree, and therefore I for example usually always try to use these
>>> terms:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> · *ISO 3166-1 Alpha-2 Codes*
>>>
>>> o these are the 2-letter codes used for ccTLDs, like “DE” for Germany
>>>
>>> o these are in Part 1 of “ISO 3166”
>>>
>>> · *ISO 3166-1 Alpha-3 Codes*
>>>
>>> o these are the 3-letter codes for countries like “DEU” for Germany
>>>
>>> o these are also in Part 1 of “ISO 3166”
>>>
>>> · *ISO 3166-2 Country Subdivision Names *(NOT the “codes”!)
>>>
>>> o These are usually states, provinces, districts, etc
>>>
>>> o these are in Part 2 of “ISO 3166”
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The “ISO 3166-2 Country Subdivisions” also have “codes” – but we do not
>>> protect the CODES but rather the NAMES! Example: There is a subdivision
>>> “Bayern” in Germany (Bavaria). The “code” is “DE-BY”. But that’s not what
>>> we protect. We protect the NAME itself: “Bayern”.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It’s one thing how people call these in our working emails. And you are
>>> right: we should all be very precise. But we WT members usually know what
>>> is meant. When it comes to the AGB we really need to be SUPER precise – and
>>> very consistent! So my suggestion for the use in the AGB:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> · *ISO 3166-1 Alpha-2 Codes (alternatively: “alpha-2 codes
>>> listed in the ISO 3166-1 standard”)*
>>>
>>> o the 2-letter country codes of ISO 3166 Part 1
>>>
>>> o these are real “codes” and not “names”
>>>
>>> · *ISO 3166 -1 Alpha-3 Codes (alternatively: “alpha-3 codes
>>> listed in the ISO 3166-1 standard”)*
>>>
>>> o the 3-letter country codes of ISO 3166 Part 1
>>>
>>> o these are real “codes” and not “names”
>>>
>>> · *ISO 3166 -2 Country Subdivision Names (alternatively:
>>> “country subdivision names listed in the ISO 3166-2 standard”)*
>>>
>>> o Officially called “principal subdivisions of countries“ and located
>>> in ISO 3166 Part 2
>>>
>>> o Again: here we target the NAME – not the “code” (we target
>>> “Bayern” and not “DE-BY”) – hence we do not say “Country Subdivision Codes”
>>> but “Country Subdivision Names”.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The 2012 AGB uses “*sub-national place name, such as a county,
>>> province, or state, listed in the ISO 3166-2 standard*” in section
>>> 2.2.1.4.2 (3) when it refers to “ISO 3166 -2 Country Subdivision Names”.
>>> ISO calls the CODES (which is not what we want to protect) “codes for
>>> identifying principal subdivisions of countries” and in other places
>>> “country subdivision codes”. I haven’t found the term “sub-national place
>>> name” in official ISO documents. So while it’s clear what is meant – it’s
>>> not ISO language. So the targeted strings are in my mind: “Country
>>> Subdivision Names” – and usually that column is always called “Subdivision
>>> Name”. We might want to consider to not use “sub-national place name” in
>>> the AGB anymore.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Alexander
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 [mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces at icann.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Jaap Akkerhuis
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2018 3:36 PM
>>> To: gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Notes and Action Items -- remarks
>>> about ISO 3166 terminology used
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A quick scan of the working document shows rather inconsistent use of
>>> ISO 3166 related terms.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Quite some of these uses stem from citing the AGB. There is not a lot to
>>> do about that, we should not change history too much. But for the current
>>> document we could do better I hope.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Often one reads things like "codes listed in the ISO 3166-2 standard".
>>>
>>> What really is meant here is "codes listed in the standard ISO 3166 Part
>>> 2". What makes this important is that people are confusing the -2 suffix
>>> with the length of the code. We should be more careful in using proper
>>> terminology and if one wants to use "3166-1" as a shortcut for "ISO 3166
>>> Part 2" it should somewhere be explained.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> An example of unclear use is a sentence like:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "meaningful representations of a country or territory
>>> name on
>>>
>>> the ISO 3166-2 standard"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What is really meant here? Country and territory names appear in ISO
>>>
>>> 3166 Part one, ISO 3166 Part 2 talks about subdivisions only. (It might
>>> be quoted from an old AGB so can't be changed, but it is still confusing),
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Something like "ISO 3166 3-letter codes, country subdivisions (3166
>>> Alpha-2)" becomes quite confusing very fast. in general ISO talks about
>>> alpha-3 etc. codes and 3166 Part 1 had alpha-2 and alpha-3 codes. ISO 3166
>>> Part 2 is about codes for subdivision codes. These codes are not related to
>>> the alpha-3 codes of Part 1 but consist of
>>>
>>> alpha-2 codes from part 1 followed by "up to 3 characters".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The working document talks about alpha-3 or 2 codes, 2/3 characters, and
>>> 2/3 letter codes etc. Most times they seem to be used denoting the same but
>>> I'm not always when non-ASCII codes are involved.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I know, it is hard to be consistent it the terminology but it is worth
>>> the effort.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> jaap
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>
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