[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] MP3 PPSAI WG - Tuesday 29 April 2014 at 1400 UTC
Nathalie Peregrine
nathalie.peregrine at icann.org
Tue Apr 29 17:11:52 UTC 2014
Dear All,
Please find the MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services
Accreditation Issues PDP Working group call held on Tuesday 29 April 2014 at
14:00 UTC at:
http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-20140429-en.mp3
On page:
<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar%23mar>
http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#apr
The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master
Calendar page:
<http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/> http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/
Attendees:
Luc Seufer - RrSG
Graeme Bunton - RrSG
Tim Ruiz - RrSG
Steve Metalitz - IPC
Kathy Kleiman - RySG
Darcy Southwell - RrSG
Libby Baney - BC
Justin Macy - BC
David Heasley - IPC
Michele Neylon - RrSG
Jennifer Standiford - RrSG
James Bladel - RrSG
Volker Greimann - RrSG
Tobias Sattler - RrSG
Phil Marano - IPC
Christian Dawson - ISPCP
Griffin Barnett - IPC
Valeriya Sherman - IPC
Don Moody - IPC
Alex Deacon - IPC
Kiran Malancharuvil - IPC
Laura Jedeed - BC
Sarah Wyld - RrSG
Apologies:
Gema Campillos - GAC
Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP
Don Blumenthal - RySG
Roy Balleste - NCUC
ICANN staff:
Marika Konings
Mary Wong
Amy Bivins
Nathalie Peregrine
** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **
Mailing list archives:
<http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/>
http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/
Wiki page:
<https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg> https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg
Thank you.
Kind regards,
Nathalie
-------------------------------
Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday 29 April 2014:
Marika Konings:Welcome to the PPSAI WG meeting of 29 April 2014
Sarah Wyld - Aplus.net:Good morning.
Mary Wong:Hello Sarah and everyone
Graeme Bunton:Good morning all
Nathalie Peregrine:Jennifer Standiford has joined the call
Kathy K:Steve, I am still coming onto the phone... but what is the
timeline for the subgroup on the technical subgroup?
Nathalie Peregrine:tobias Sattler has joined the call
Tobias Sattler:Sorry, for being late
Mary Wong:@Kathy, in response to your email request on the list, we've
included the Threshojld Question for Category C in the Notes pod (on the
right side of your screen). Hope this helps!
Bladel:Or maybe we decided to have the group, but were still working on
its mission?
Luc Seufer:So first we assemble the avengers and then we find them a
mission?
Mary Wong:@James, I don't believe the WG agreed to it definitively, though
we got a few volunteers should one be formed.
Nathalie Peregrine:Kiran Malancharuvil has joined the audio bridge
Mary Wong:The wording on the preliminary conclusion in this part is based
on the WG discussion and AC chat from last week.
Bladel:I'll defer to Kathy on this point.
Bladel:Her memory is better than mine. :)
Michele Neylon:more IRTPs?
Michele Neylon:NO NO
Michele Neylon:NO NO
Michele Neylon::)
Luc Seufer:not sure you'll get an athos with that behavior :-p
Luc Seufer:ethos rather
Mary Wong:Link to AC chat from last week:
https://community.icann.org/x/kzvRAg
Mary Wong:Excerpt: steve metalitz:I am open to making this an
accreditation requirement IF there is a practical way to do it. The purpose
of the subgroup would be to answer whether it is practical. steve
metalitz:"This" = enabling transfer without losing p/p protection. Kathy
K:Agree with Steve! Paul McGrady:Agree with Steve and Kathy Amr
Elsadr:Also agree with Steve. Val Sherman:+1 @Steve
Kathy K:+1 James - ID the hurdles, suggest
Kathy K:ways forward, IRTP out of bounds
Nathalie Peregrine:Val Shearman has joined the call
Bladel:(dont say charter dont say charter).
Bladel::)
Kathy K:Sure
Bladel:Yes
Kathy K:agreed
Nathalie Peregrine:Phil Marano has joined the call
Nathalie Peregrine:Volker Greimann has joined the call
Bladel:Private Transfer?
Michele Neylon:+1 to James
Michele Neylon:audio gone for me
Kathy K:It was the IPC that provided us with the legitimate purposes for
proxy/privacy services for commercial entities
Michele Neylon:thoguh that could be my wifi
Libby Baney:+1 to Kiran
Bladel:Most major banks also use these services.
Michele Neylon:conflating p/p with fake pharma is like yelling "think of
the children"
Justin Macy:+1 Kiran
Michele Neylon:and is a massive red herring
Kiran Malancharuvil:and what's wrong with thinking of the children
Michele?
Kathy K:That's what I remember too - that the banks used proxy/privacy
Michele Neylon:Kiran - seriously?
Kiran Malancharuvil:Yes seriously. There are a LOT of people who die from
counterfeit pharma sales online every year. Ignoring it is kind of
despicable.
Michele Neylon:It's got nothing to do with P/P
Michele Neylon:+1 to Tim
Kiran Malancharuvil:haha, okay Michele.
Luc Seufer:Wow since when a domain name can host content?
Luc Seufer:+1 Tim
Michele Neylon:+1 to Tim again
Michele Neylon:my mother doesn't know what whois is
Michele Neylon:why the hell should she?
Bladel:In fact, we conducted an experiment on this in the WHOIS review
team. Most usesr go to the 'About Us" page, not much awareness of WHOIS.
Graeme Bunton:no ones mother knows what WHOS is
Kiran Malancharuvil:People in the consumer protection game use WHOIS, is
your mother in consumer protection?
Luc Seufer:We should make a t-shirt out of that one
Kiran Malancharuvil:I'm a mother and I know what WHOIS is.
Sarah Wyld - Aplus.net:My mother knows how to do a whois
Michele Neylon:Luc - oh :)
Kiran Malancharuvil:Don't be disrespectful of women by making these stupid
comments about "mothers."
Sarah Wyld - Aplus.net:+1 Kiran
Kathy K:lost connection... please move forward with queue
Nathalie Peregrine:Kathy, you're still showing as connected on the bdirge
Nathalie Peregrine:would you like a dial ouy?>
Luc Seufer:I can't speak for the rest of the world but in the EU, entities
willing to do businesses have the obligation to display their contact
details on their website, not in the whois
Libby Baney:Isn't it easier to lie on the face of a website (e.g. in the
About Us) than it is supposed to be in the WHOIS data?
Kiran Malancharuvil:Yes Libby. Whois, with it's new verification
requirements would be much safer
Luc Seufer:which is based on policy
Luc Seufer:the website req. is based on legal obligation. Hoster will have
to suspend their services if the details are inacurrate. (speaking of the
EU)
Kiran Malancharuvil:So is that content regulation then Luc?
Kathy K:still on hold
Tim Ruiz:Agree with Steve about not making it a requirement to accept
commercial customers as a p/p provider.
Luc Seufer:@Kiran , yes sort of.
Libby Baney:@kiran, yes - thanks. So transparent WHOIS data for commercial
activities would then be another data point for consumers to check,
possiblly in additon to the About Us info on the face of a website
Kiran Malancharuvil:That seems more complicated than verifying Whois data
Kiran Malancharuvil:All of the questions James is raising are worth
discussion
Mary Wong:Since the Privacy & Proxy Abuse Study was referenced, just a
note that the researchers found a higher-than-average rate of P/P use for
illegal activities, but that among legal users there was also a fairly high
percentage of use among several such type of legal entities (viz. banks and
adult websites).
Graeme Bunton:+1 James
Kathy K:back online
Mary Wong:Note also that the researchers did not distinguish btwn
commercial or non-commercial, entity or individual users - the legal uses
were chosen to "mirror" the illegal categories of activities they were
studying.
Libby Baney:A number of issues/questions were just raised; I hope we get
to address each in turn
Tim Ruiz:What would we be trying to accomplish by denying "commercial"
users or creating other types of categories? Given the difficulties it would
create with verifying who is and isn't a particular category, enforcement,
etc., doesn't it make more sense to discuss what we want from it and then
see if there isn't a better way to get there, such as in reveal?
Kiran Malancharuvil:I'm not sure that B2B providers are expempt from
business licensing, which is public .
Michele Neylon:FYI - the US is NOT the World
Michele Neylon:#justsaying
Graeme Bunton:good points Kathy
Libby Baney:@Kathy - seems we could make the distinction between
comm/non-comm activities, not "entities" -- for the reasons you just note re
e.g. 501(c)(3)
Kiran Malancharuvil:There are licensing requirements in the EU
Tim Ruiz:@Michele +1
Michele Neylon:Kiran - not in all countries and not for all types of
business
Michele Neylon:please don't preach to me about my own jurisdiction :)
Kiran Malancharuvil:I am well aware. I have two of my higher degrees from
the EU.
Kiran Malancharuvil:Don't assume that because I'm american I have a
centric approach.
Kathy K:Marketplace of ideas vs. marketplace of goods and services - many
organizations, foundations and groups are dedicated to ideas, not goods and
services
Bladel:Lets do thist.
Michele Neylon:rat holes are great
Bladel:First accredited PP servcie will come online in 2020.
Michele Neylon:But I don't get paid to do PDPs
Michele Neylon:so I'll have left by then
Kathy K:Why - good question, Tim
Bladel:I vote for the rat hole. Status quo will be maintained until I
retire.
Bladel::)
Michele Neylon:+1 James :)
Luc Seufer:hum.. how long do we have? 5+ years? :-P
Libby Baney:@Tim - good point. I'd say this issue is highly important for
us to strike the right balance between transparency and privacy
Volker Greimann:can we do a rabbit hole instead? they are bigger
Tim Ruiz:You call the rat hole rhetoric, and make the rat hole even bigger
with your comment.
Kathy K:I think we should discuss the threshold question at the beginnin
gof next week - with a larger group
Tim Ruiz:Agree with Kathy
Bladel:+1 Kathy.
Tim Ruiz:@volker, rabbit hole it is. I like the association with
Wonderland. ;-)
Luc Seufer:2 hour pres. should be sufficient
Kathy K:Prefer not to move ahead -- talk next meeting?
Tim Ruiz:I would prefer to dicuss this next week again first.
Tim Ruiz:@Kathy, Agree.
Kiran Malancharuvil:THanks
Darcy Southwell:Thanks
Luc Seufer:Thanks
Phil Marano:Thank you!
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