[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] UPDATED: MP3 PPSAI WG - Tuesday 28 January 2014 at 1500UTC

[Nathalie Peregrine]

With additional participants.

Kind regards

Nathalie

From: owner-gnso-secs at icann.org [mailto:owner-gnso-secs at icann.org] On Behalf Of Nathalie Peregrine
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 5:26 PM
To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
Cc: gnso-secs at icann.org
Subject: [gnso-secs] MP3 PPSAI WG - Tuesday 28 January 2014 at 1500UTC


Dear All,


Please find the MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP Working group call held on Tuesday 28 January 2014 at 15:00 UTC at:

http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-20140128-en.mp3

On page:
http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#may>jan

The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:
http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/

Attendees:
Don Blumenthal - RySG
Luc Seufer - RrSG
Marie-Laure Lemineur - NPOC
Michele Neylon - RrSG
Volker Greimann - RrSG
Griffin Barnett - IPC
Justin Macy - CBUC
Kathy Kleiman - RySG
Jim Bikoff - IPC
Graeme Bunton - RrSG
Tatiana Khramstova - RrSG
Nic Steinbach - RrSG
David Heasley - IPC
James Bladel - RrSG
Susan Prosser - RrSG
Kiran Malancharuvil - IPC
David Cake - NCSG
Todd Williams - IPC
Valeriya Sherman - IPC
Alex Deacon - IPC
Steve Metalitz - IPC
Amr Elsadr - NCUC
Tobias Sattler - RrSG
Kristina Rosette - IPC
Gema Campillos - GAC
Carlton Samuels - ALAC
Paul McGrady - IPC
Darcy Southwell - RrSG
Ben Anderson - RrSG
Billy Watenpaugh - RrSG
Emily Emanual - BC

Apologies:
Statton Hammock - RySG
Holly Raiche - ALAC
Osvaldo Novoa  - ISPCP
Roy Balleste - NCUC
Stephanie Perrin - NCUC
Joe Catapano

ICANN staff:
Marika Konings
Mary Wong
Amy Bivins
Mike Zupke
Nathalie Peregrine

** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **

Mailing list archives:
http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/

Wiki page:
https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg

Thank you.
Kind regards,
Nathalie Peregrine


   Marika Konings:Welcome to the PPSAI WG Meeting of 28 January 2014

  Paul McGrady:Good morning everyone from Frozen Chicago!

  Mike Zupke:Greetings, Paul.

  Bladel:@Paul, just a few hours west of you...it's not so bad today.  We are already above zero!

  Michele Neylon:If you hear anything odd from my end it's because the building is being power washed

  Michele Neylon:it's like working in a car wash today

  Michele Neylon:http://instagram.com/p/jt0nhNmJ36/

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Luc Seufer has joined

  Michele Neylon:in case anyone doesn't believe me :)

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Volker Greimann has joined

  Valeriya Sherman:David Heasley is also on the call

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Nic Steinbach has joined

  Nathalie  Peregrine:thank you Valeriya, noted

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Gema Campillos is also on the call

  Volker Greimann:I am on

  Gema Campillos:Hi everybody! I´m back! I understand the letters have already been sent out. GAC members have not received them yet. I´ll brief my colleagues about the WG when the letter arrives.

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Amr Elsadr is also on the call

  Amr Elsadr:dialling in now.

  Mary Wong 2:Thanks, Gema, for the note. We will follow up with our colleagues who support the GAC to ensure that the letter (sent to the GAC Chair) is distributed to members.

  Amr Elsadr:Hi. Just joined the call.

  Kathy Kleiman:I think we will wind up spending way too much time on definitions if we don't have an initial threshold questions...

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Kristina Rosette has joined the AC room

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Susan Prosser has joined the call

  Mary Wong 2:@James - would adding "registered" to III. (1) address your point?

  Bladel:Hi Mary.  I'm not sure.  We can talk about the "domain name used for" or the "content associated with a domain name" which is probably a website, but could be email (commercial or non-commercial) or an app, or something eelse.

  Mary Wong 2:@Michele, the SO/AC/SG/C responses may help the WG fine tune its work/questions further. You can also go back to them with additional questions/requests at some point if appropriate.

  Mary Wong 2:@James, thanks. Perhaps the group can consider adding another bullet point about this under III. (1) then?

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Carlton Samuels has joined the AC room

  Carlton Samuels:Hi everybody. My apologies for the late join

  Graeme Bunton:Akin to a conditional survey

  Bladel:Maybe doesn't need to be done formally, but should be kept in mind or "flagged" when found.

  Nathalie  Peregrine:David Cake has joinjed the call

  Marie-laure Lemineur:+1 Michele

  Amr Elsadr:@Michele: +1.

  Carlton Samuels:No audio to me on the A/C

  Michele Neylon:dial in :)

  Michele Neylon:also Don seems to be coming and going volume wise

  Carlton Samuels:Was about to try Skype to US TF :-)

  Mary Wong 2:@Michele, are you on AC audio or phone bridge? The latter tends to be clearer and more stable.

  Amr Elsadr:@Carlton. That's what I'm using. Working well.

  Graeme Bunton:Don sounds fine to me using the AC Audio

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Carlton, we can dial out to you if you would rather not dial in

  Kathy Kleiman:Ques 1 for III. Registration: Should the WG create categories of p/p customers - or continue to support the current system in which proxy/privacy services are available to companies, noncommercial organizations and individuals?

  Valeriya Sherman:How and when are we planning to use the results of the WG member survey?

  Michele Neylon:+1 Gema

  Michele Neylon:on the audio

  Michele Neylon:not on anything else :)

  Marika Konings:@Valeriya - the idea would be to include these together with feedback received from SG/C/AC/SOs as input for the WG to consider in relation to each of these charter questions.

  Mary Wong 2:All, FYI - the date by which we requested that SO/AC/SG/Cs send us their input is Friday 28 Feb.

  Luc Seufer:I think Carlton ihas dialed in.

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Carlton, I have muted your AC mic

  Carlton Samuels:No trouble. I'm finally in!!

  Kathy Kleiman:Welcome!

  Valeriya Sherman:Thanks @Marika and Mary.

  Mary Wong 2:@Steve, that is correct - the PDP Manual obligates every WG to seek SO/AC input as early as possible in its deliberations. It does not say you have to wait till they all come in before proceeding.

  Mary Wong 2:But one advantage of early input is of course that it can be helpful to the WG as it begins its work.

  Marika Konings:Identifying these sub-questions may also help the WG to identify whether there are any areas that require additional data or research.

  Marika Konings:as well as planning how to tackle its work (which should form the basis for the work plan)

  Graeme Bunton:sounds better

  Bladel:Much better!

  Susan Prosser:much better

  Marie-laure Lemineur:so have we reached an agreement re> Kathy' s question?

  Gema Campillos:I hear to you better, Don.

  Michele Neylon:I'll try to come back

  Nathalie  Peregrine:the line has been muted

  Gema Campillos:hear you, sorry

  Carlton Samuels:@Steve: +1 We move it along and add input from SOs/ACs as we go along. Early input - any input would be Very Helpful and will always help the conversations towards consensus

  Mary Wong 2:@Marie-Laure, we will add a footnote/reference to capture Kathy's, James' and Steve's input on that and have a revised document by the next meeting.

  Kathy Kleiman:Great, tx Steve!

  Kathy Kleiman:Right, agree with Steve.

  Kathy Kleiman:Perfect.

  Marie-laure Lemineur:@steve I agree..

  Kathy Kleiman:Steve: can you edit the text per the change - and we can add it as a formal ques in Section III?

  Carlton Samuels:@Steve: But before we say change, let's ask the questions that probe any disability or deleterious impact associated with status quo

  Bladel:How about this:  What is the threshold for determining that a "class" or "category" of user/user should be denied from accessing these services?

  Kathy Kleiman:James: but is there a threshold?

  Gema Campillos:I have some comments, but are not related to the categories issue. May I ask them now or bring them on the mailing list?

  Amr Elsadr:Wether categorzation of domain name registrants should be required of accredited service providers is the charter question, isn't it?

 Mary Wong 2:@Gema, do raise your hand so Don can see it and you can speak.

  Don Blumenthal:I see Gemas

  Don Blumenthal:'s question. Go ahead with what you want to raise

  Luc Seufer:I still have faith in ENUM!

  Kathy Kleiman:I think we have agreemend on the threshold question: and I would be happy to accept Steve's edits...

  Valeriya Sherman:It would make sense for us to review and incorporate input from the surveys of the WG members before we get input from SOs/ACs on Feb 28. Might help us clarify issues/definitions, identify sub-questions and move towards consensus. Thoughts?

  Mary Wong 2:@Amr, that was the point Steve made initially. As mentioned we will capture these discussions in the document by way of a footnote - it may be confusing to add so many suggestions on the same point as additional questions or bullet points.

  Kathy Kleiman:@Mary, the proposal is for a threshold question - a Ques. #1 in III. Registration.

  steve metalitz:@Kathy, how about something like this:  Currently, proxy/privacy services are available to companies, noncommercial organizations and individuals.  Should there be any change to this aspect of the current system in the new accreditation standards?

  Kathy Kleiman:There seems to be convergence on the language.

  Graeme Bunton:Good points James

  Carlton Samuels:@James: +1.  I agree we start at looking at the issue and impacts, decide which ones are bad for business, set a standard for accessing and suggest a pathway to access the services

  Amr Elsadr:@Mary: My understanding is as per Kathy's comment - changing the txt of the threshold question.

  Kathy Kleiman:@Steve: good wording!

  Mary Wong 2:@Kathy, I had thought Don had agreed to a footnote some time ago. However, if Steve and James and you agree on wording we can add this as a bullet point. indicating that it is a threshold question for III(1).

  Kathy Kleiman:@Mary: I think we can add it as a threshold question in III...

  Mary Wong 2:Or we can add it at the top as a threshold question.

  Mary Wong 2:Yes Kathy! :)

  Kathy Kleiman:Second option - tx :-)

  Amr Elsadr:@Kathy: +1 (to Mary's second option). It seems there is no objection as per Steve's last suggestion.

  Amr Elsadr:@Steve: Correct me if I'm mistaken please. :)

  Amr Elsadr:Are there laws regarding p/p services, or are they more focused on contact data being published on the actual website's content?

  Luc Seufer:@Amr not as far as know. Here, laws on hosting  uses deal with hosting requirements.

  Kathy Kleiman:@Marika - there seems to be some ambiguity of use of "reveal" and "publish" - should I point that out on the list?

  Amr Elsadr:@Luc: Thanks. That's my understanding as well, but I am not an expert. :)

  Mary Wong 2:@Kathy, that may be something for the Reveal sub group to discuss.

  Mary Wong 2:(if that is how the WG decides to proceed; hence it would be helpful to decide the approach sooner rathr than later).

  Graeme Bunton:INFINITY!

  Kathy Kleiman:Wow Alice in Wonderland!

  Mary Wong 2:And we have multiple screens too when supporting WG calls :)

  Luc Seufer:Inception? IPCand NC agreeing,  I knew I was dreaming

  Luc Seufer:;-)

  Amr Elsadr::)

  Marika Konings:@Kathy - as Mary said, developing definitions is probably something that will occur as part of the WG deliberations on these questions.

  Kathy Kleiman:@Marika and Mary, I think there is a place in the new bullets where the word "publish" is used in lieu of "reveal." big difference in implications so it is something i will share.

  Kathy Kleiman:... in upcoming comments.

  Paul McGrady:While it took some time, I thought today's discussion was extremely helpful.  Thank you all.

  Volker Greimann:yes, provided it is not at 7:30 in the morning

  Nathalie  Peregrine:Phil Marano has joined the AC room

  Marie-laure Lemineur:I support the idea of a F2F meeting in Singapore

  Amr Elsadr:@Volker: +1

  Phil Marano:Very sorry to be so late, I had a meeting run long.

  Phil Marano:I'll listen to the recording when it is published.

  Mary Wong 2:Assuming the main schedule doesn't change much, Thursday morning is usually good.

  Mary Wong 2:That is what we used for the first meeting in Buenos Aires.

  Carlton Samuels:@Kathy: There is indeed a difference even in the basic grammar between 'publish' and 'reveal'.  In this context this is even of greater importance to respect the difference in meaning.

  Tobias Sattler:@Volker: +1

  Amr Elsadr:@Mary: There were some WG meetings at 07:30 in BA. They didn't attract as much participation as we would hope.

  Mary Wong 2:@Amr, same thing for evenings :(

  Bladel:Wait...isn't PIR a sponsor?

  Amr Elsadr:I know scheduling is not easy, but WG f2f is important.

  Tobias Sattler:Thank you

  Amr Elsadr:Thanks Don. Bye.

  Graeme Bunton:Thanks Don

  Justin Macy:Thanks!

  Kathy Kleiman:@ Carlton: I'll put out more details soon.

  Marie-laure Lemineur:tx Don and all

  Luc Seufer:Thanks, bye

  David Cake:thanks all

  Carlton Samuels:Thanks Don. Thanks all. Stimulating discussion

  Susan Prosser:thanks Don.


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