[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] MP3 PPSAI WG - Tuesday 28 October 2014 at 1400 UTC

Glen de Saint Géry Glen at icann.org
Tue Oct 28 16:23:34 UTC 2014

Dear All,

Please find the MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP Working group call held on Tuesday 28 October 2014 at 14:00 UTC. at:
On page:

The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:

Steve Metalitz - IPC
Graeme Bunton – RrSG
Griffin Barnett – IPC
Frank Michlick – Individual
Don Blumenthal – RySG
David Heasley-IPC
Jim Bikoff-IPC
Chris Pelling – RrSG
Kathy Kleiman – NCSG
Justin Macy - BC
Susan Kawaguchi – BC
Kristina Rosette – IPC
Darcy Southwell – RrSG
Paul McGrady – IPC
Sarah Wyld – RrSG
Victoria Scheckler - IPC
Michele Neylon – RrSG
Val Sherman – IPC
Alex Deacon – IPC
Todd Williams – IPC
Phil Corwin – BC
Volker Greimann - RrSG
Holly Raiche – ALAC
Theo Geurts - RrSG
Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP
Tatiana Khramtsova - RrSG
Stephanie Perrin - NCSG
David Cake - NCSG
Susan Prosser - RrSG
Christian Dawson - ISPC

Apologies :
Amr Elsadr - NCSG
Carlton Samuels – At-Large
James Bladel – RrSG

ICANN staff:
Mary Wong
Amy Bivins
Glen de Saint Géry

** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **

Mailing list archives:
Wiki page:

Thank you.
Kind regards,

Glen de Saint Géry
GNSO Secretariat
gnso.secretariat at gnso.icann.org<mailto:gnso.secretariat at gnso.icann.org>


 Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday 28 October 2014:

  Glen de Saint Gery:Welcome to the PPSAI call  on October 28 2014

  Graeme Bunton:No audio via adobe? only call in?

  Glen de Saint Gery:sound should be up

  Holly Raiche:Are the dial outs being made?

  Graeme Bunton:I only see the option to dial in

  Holly Raiche:Is the option replacing an earlier request for a dial out?

  Mary Wong:Hi all, there was a new plugin I had to download today - I have Adobe sound and mic.

  Glen de Saint Gery:Holly we are dialing out to you now

  Holly Raiche:Thanks

  Chris Pelling:afternoon all

  Theo Geurts:good afternoon all

  Graeme Bunton:I am able to test my mic set up using the audio setup in the adobe connect, but the option is still not enabled when I try to connect my audio

  Osvaldo Novoa:Hello all, I will dial in now.

  Graeme Bunton:dialing in, waiting on operator

  Volker Greimann:what was that just now? no audio?

  Volker Greimann:did anyone elses audio drop or just mine?

  Michele Neylon:got dropped by the operator

  Frank Michlick:I still have audio in the adobe room.

  Glen de Saint Gery:the operrator is getting people on the line

  Chris Pelling:I can also hear audio in the room

  steve metalitz:Schedule looks good to me.

  Glen de Saint Gery:@Volker, is your audio all right now?

  Holly Raiche:Actually, in apAC, therarere many very different regimes

  Holly Raiche:Sorry - thought you meant APAC region

  David Cake:I agree that F2F went well.

  Stephanie Perrin:Audio is going back and forth...is that me or are other people having trouble?

  Michele Neylon:Dialling in might be saner

  Mary Wong:@Steve, yes

  Mary Wong:Staff is assuming that the proposal highlighted in the document pertained only to Disclosure and not Publication

  Stephanie Perrin:@Michele thx

  Paul McGrady:Apologies, but I am having a really hard time hearing Don today.

  Michele Neylon:Paul - dialling in seems to work - adobe might be a bit b0rked

  Paul McGrady:Michele - thanks!  I will try that.

  Glen de Saint Gery:if you need a dialout, please let me know

  David Cake:I was about to discuss, just realise I need to dial in

  Paul McGrady:Dial in is much better.  Thanks!

  David Cake:I have no great issues with what Steve said, but I have disagreements with some of Vals other suggestions.

  Stephanie Perrin:agree witk Kathy K

  Volker Greimann:+1

  Philip Corwin:On Disclosure, what IP rights are we talking about? Not patent, I presume. Certainly copyright. But are we including trademark -- there is UDRP and URS for that, and I don't think we should be creating a parallel procedure for domain name-related trademark allegations. sale of counterfeit goods on a website may be a different matter.

  Chris Pelling:Sorry I am listening, where are we page and point ?

  Chris Pelling:page 1 point 1 ?

  Mary Wong:@Chris, we're on the Relay issue

  Graeme Bunton:Ahahahaah. Thanks Steve

  Don Blumenthal':And Val's suggested edits in email.

  Val Sherman:My point regarding cost-shifting was specific to the second bullet -- which references a number of failed attempts at delivery via the email address provided.

  Graeme Bunton:Technically, not 'mine'

  Mary Wong:@Graeme, too late :)

  Michele Neylon:nor mine

  Todd Williams:+1 Steve.  This is pretty narrow.  Doesn't implicate examples Graham mentioned.

  Todd Williams:Graeme.  Sorry.  :)

  Kathy:Oh no - more quilts!

  Kathy:Quilts and diapers....

  Chris Pelling:+1 Michele

  Volker Greimann:Not more diapers, please

  steve metalitz:Agree with Michele that all conclusions are preliminary but without "must" there's not a definable minimum standard for accreditation.

  Kristina Rosette:Apologies in advance for when/if I come off mute: The DC cab drivers are having another honking protest on Pennsylvania Avenue (immediately under my office window).

  Mary Wong:@Kristina, hence the need to move offices! :)

  Kristina Rosette:+1 to Steve w/r/t need for "must" in order to have an actual minimum standard

  Stephanie Perrin:REcommend parking the idea until we are closer to completion.  Also recommend leaving discretion with providers.  They are after all responsible.

  Michele Neylon:+1 Stephanie

  Volker Greimann:so essentially the taxi drivers are pushing you to use Uber instead again?

  Michele Neylon:Taxi drivers - don't get me started ..

  Kathy:I agree with the concerns raised by Michele and Stephanie, but also the note that the "should" applies only to the electronic communication. That is a detail I imissed.

  Kathy:Perhaps we should add a line that p/p service provides have discretion over any non-electronic communication that they receive.


  Val Sherman:David -- we are talking about a stiuation where there have been a "certain minimum number of delivery failures -- i.e. hard bounces bc something is wrong with the email.

  Volker Greimann:Totally disagree with Steve: The standards for accreditation have nothing to do with forcing a provider to provide a third party with a potentially useless message.

  Stephanie Perrin:Is thew issue of must/should not something that we ask for comments on at the end of our drafting process?  and cinch up accordingly?

  Alex Deacon:@michele - agreed.   one a single 5xx falure should be sufficient.

  Michele Neylon:http://www.iana.org/assignments/smtp-enhanced-status-codes/smtp-enhanced-status-codes.xhtml

  Alex Deacon:a single....

  Michele Neylon:temporary failures are a different matter

  Kathy:I think Val's suggestion of yesterday is one we should go back to our SG on and talk about it.

  Alex Deacon:right

  Chris Pelling:some nice feedback a few times then

  Volker Greimann:I am not currently dialled in. Usually use the Adobe

  Glen de Saint Gery:can we call out to you Volker?

  Volker Greimann:dialing in now

  Kathy:@Mary, in the notes, final paragraph, could you change "our" to "Val's" and then add some notes re: the concerns raised by others (because this is a shift of several things including should -> must and cost shifting.


  Chris Pelling:Cheers kathy

  Volker Greimann:did not realize I would be asked to present

  Don Blumenthal':Validated postal code?

  Michele Neylon:huh?

  Don Blumenthal':Thinking of the Whois check processes

  Michele Neylon:There's no requirement to check post codes

  Volker Greimann:we just deactivated post-code checks for certain countries

  Volker Greimann:(and before you send an email to compliance, these are countries that do not have postal codes)

  Chris Pelling:Steve - we do not control content

  Darcy Southwell:@Steve, That was helpful, thanks.

  Graeme Bunton:Typically, when we work on malware and phishing issues, its with people we've built relationships with over years.   I worry that removing our discretion on what to respond means that we then need to be far more rigid with those issues.

  Don Blumenthal':I should clarify. We don't see malware as a content issue without our anti abuse polcy. The point was to suggest that "content" definitions may vary.

  Michele Neylon:+1 Graeme

  Val Sherman:+1 @ Steve and Paul -- disclosure may obviate and/or faciliate a URS or  UDRP.

  Kristina Rosette:And, NAF's URS supplemental rules make clear that the Respondent is the person/entity listed in Whois when the case is filed. That would be the proxy provider. So Phil's proposed solution doesn't seem to apply to URS.

  Don Blumenthal':Question for me or Paul?

  Kathy:+1 Volker - we have to take into account abuse on both sides - Registrants and Lawyers/Those seeking info

  Paul McGrady:I'm happy to respond to Volker's comment, but it appears we are out of time.

  Don Blumenthal':OK. For me. I'll follow up. in email.

  Philip Corwin:I have to leave call at 11 sharp but reiterate my concern abiout compulsory disclosure oif registrant data based upon mere allegation of TM infringement by a domain name. UDRP and URS filings sometimes are denied, yet we would compel disclsoure absent a decision on the merits. Also, while relay of a C&D letter may help avoid filing of a UDRP or URS, disclosure of registrant data does not promote that result.

  Kathy:I would like to hear Paul's response...

  Michele Neylon:Agree with Phil

  Kathy:Same bat channel. Bye all

  Michele Neylon:allegation of TM infringement is not the same as actual infringement

  Frank Michlick:Thank you.

  Michele Neylon:bye

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