[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] MP3 PPSAI WG - Tuesday 14 April 2015 at 1400 UTC

Terri Agnew terri.agnew at icann.org
Tue Apr 14 17:23:05 UTC 2015

Dear All,

Please find the MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP Working group call held on Tuesday 14 April 2015 at 14:00 UTC at: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-14apr15-en.mp3

On page:


The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:



Frank Michlick - Individual

Justin Macy - BC

Val Sherman - IPC

Griffin Barnett - IPC

Kathy Kleiman - NCSG

Darcy Southwell - RrSG

Steve Metalitz - IPC

Graeme Bunton - RrSG

Jim Bikoff - IPC

Volker Greimann - RrSG

Alex Deacon -IPC

Stephanie Perrin - NCSG

Phil Corwin - BC

Chris Pelling - RrSG

David Hughes - IPC

Tatiana Khramtsova - RrSG

Terri Stumme - BC

Holly Raiche - ALAC

Vicky Sheckler - IPC

Susan Kawaguchi - BC
Luc Seufer - RrSG
Michele Neylon - RrSG
Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP
Roger Carney - RrSG

Kiran Malancharuvil - IPC

James Bladel - RrSG
Paul McGrady - IPC
Sarah Wyld - RrSG

Carlton Samuels - ALAC

Apologies :

Don Blumenthal - RySG

Todd Williams - IPC

Richard Leaning -  Individual

ICANN staff:

Mary Wong

Danielle Andela

Amy Bivins

Terri Agnew

** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **

Mailing list archives:

Wiki page:


Thank you.

Kind regards,

Terri Agnew


 Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday 14 April 2015

  Terri Agnew:Welcome to the PPSAI WG Meeting of 14 April 2015

  Chris Pelling:afternoon all

  Terri Agnew:Jim Bikoff is on audio

  Terri Agnew:Osvaldo Novoa has joined

  Osvaldo Novoa:Hello all, sorry I'm late

  Terri Agnew:Griffin Barnett has joined

  Holly Raiche:Is Kathy just on audio and not Adobe?

  Terri Agnew:Luc Seufer has joined

  Terri Agnew:Kathy is on both

  Terri Agnew:Kiran Malancharuvil is on audio

  Kathy:Just in - Hi All!

  Luc Seufer:Hi Kathy

  Holly Raiche:Thanks Graeme

  Terri Agnew:Vicky Sheckler has joined

  Vicky Sheckler:sorry i'm late

  Mary Wong:Thanks, James - we will be sure to highlight both agreeements and differences as best we can, esp in the Exec Summary of the report

  Frank Michlick:Sorry for joining late.

  Terri Agnew:Frank Michlick has joined

  Terri Agnew:David Hughes is on audio

  Terri Agnew:Stephanie Perrin has joined

  Holly Raiche:Could the relevant documents be put up please

  James Bladel:Trusted sender should be an option/best practice.  Not obligatoin.  But would make life easier for high-volume providers or  reporters

  Vicky Sheckler:agree w/ steve

  Mary Wong:@Holly, apologies for missing your comment - were you referring to the Annex that Steve is discussing? That should be on your AC screen.

  Holly Raiche:Nothing is on my screen!

  Kiran Malancharuvil:@Holly - I see the Annex.  You may want to log out and back in?

  Holly Raiche:@ Krian - thanks - I can see the chat column and the column on the right - just nothing in the middle!  will try again

  Terri Agnew:@Holly, did logging back in help?

  Volker Greimann:Michele is right... I do that _all_ _the_ time!

  Michele Neylon:yes you do

  Michele Neylon:bloody German :)

  James Bladel::)

  Michele Neylon:Kathy - isn't that sort of inferred?

  Luc Seufer:don't you worry Michele, once the accreditation will be in place Volker will have to pinky swear he won't do it again.

  Kathy:Maybe but everything in brackets, I think, is in a "maybe"

  Mary Wong:@Kathy, we can call that (and other square bracketed language elsewhere) out specifically as needing community feedback - since that's the "device" we are using to indicate places where the WG has not yet reached consensus?

  val sherman:+1 kiran

  Vicky Sheckler:given the discussion, it seems there are pblms with requiring a specific jdx

  Luc Seufer:hum that's basic international law. You can serve us a foreign court order all you want, if it hasn't follow the exequatur process we won't act on it.

  Kathy:+1 Volker - and under the Providers' laws

  Vicky Sheckler:agree w/ Michele

  Kiran Malancharuvil:Agree.  Overspecification is a problem.  Appreciate the clarification from Volker.

  Michele Neylon:people will hopefuly raise issues via the comments

  Michele Neylon:ie. the comment period

  James Bladel:Need to drop the call a bit early.  Looking forward to the publication of the Initial Report.  Important Milestone for this group!

  Kathy:and removal of the word "only


  Mary Wong:@Kathy, wouldn't removing the "intent to deceive" language be preferable? So the standard remains "knowingly false representations"?

  Kathy:Tx for the good discussion of the Annex, Steve!

  Kathy:@Mary: I think so. Also puzzling over the word "only" when that edit is made...

  Terri Agnew:Carlton Samuels  has joined

  Vicky Sheckler:think we should leave "only" b/c I think the reps cover the issues kathy mentioned. But I need to confirm this

  Carlton Samuels:Morning all. Had a whale of a time coming getting on

  Holly Raiche:Morning Carlton

  Vicky Sheckler:(i.e. leave in the document)

  Kathy:Hi Carlton!

  Mary Wong:@Kathy, @Vicky, our read of it (not being the drafters) is that retaining "only" while striking out "intent to deceive" would make it clear that there is a single standard for the process, ie a false rep was made knowingly.

  Holly Raiche:I'd be happy with privacy service as well

  Vicky Sheckler:agree w/ val

  Kathy:I think we put the whole paragraph out for public comment - with a paragraph to ICANN Community sharing the questions we have and the input we are seeking

  val sherman:how is it easier for the provider to balance and figure out which purpose is main?

  Michele Neylon:exactly - that's why I'd prefer "privacy service" instead of "privacy" by itself

  Vicky Sheckler:agree w/ steve metalitz that usigng privacy swallos the rule


  Michele Neylon:but you can't expect us to put our clients in danger ..

  Alex Deacon:we can't have vague language here and work hard to ensure we don't create a loophole where, to borrow Steve's wording, the exception swallows the rule.

  Michele Neylon:I know we've had requests for reveal where if we had our client would have ened up dead

  Michele Neylon:the request => other motivation eg. doing them harm

  Carlton Samuels:Why would we care aabout the motivation? We have concealed personal data by design and effected by contract. All we need do is to demand you do not break the contract without well-founded cause.  And we're giving guidance as to possible reasons for breaking contract; slam dunk cases or when in doubt, seek advice.

  Holly Raiche:AGre - maybe word in the revere - the  reason mainly NOT in relation to the trademark/IP issue as being claimed

  Kathy:I think we all agree with Volker -- but how to reflect in the language?

  Holly Raiche:@Kathy - agreed

  Kathy:What if we remove the words [solely] and [mainly]?

  Alex Deacon:"for the avoidance of doubt..."

  Vicky Sheckler:need to be careful that we don't fall into last week's issues about unncessarily expanding this beyond the narrow pretext purpose of this paragraph

  val sherman:true, Vicky

  Mary Wong:It's the same language in all three places now, Steve.

  Kathy:where did the automation language go?

  Mary Wong:@Kathy it is still at the bottom of the document; we haven't changed it pending final discussion (per notes on the right from last week)

  Kathy:@Mary: tx!

  val sherman:Kathy's latest language captures that possibility.

  Kiran Malancharuvil:I would like to continue the discussion on attestation on the list, but I don't think we have time today

  Mary Wong:We will remove the "human review" phrase unless there are objections/suggestions.

  Kathy:Good call!

  Kathy:Tx Steve!

  Kiran Malancharuvil:Alternatively, int he spirit of getting it out, I'm okay with what it states and minority views repped

  Kiran Malancharuvil:thanks Steve!

  Kiran Malancharuvil::)

  val sherman:thanks all!

  Carlton Samuels:Thanks all

  Kathy:@Mary: can you put it in italics first?

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