[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] MP3 PPSAI WG - Tuesday 25 August 2015 at 1400 UTC

Nathalie Peregrine nathalie.peregrine at icann.org
Tue Aug 25 18:18:06 UTC 2015

Dear All,

Please find the MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP Working group call held on Tuesday 25 August 2015 at 14:00 UTC at: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-25aug15-en.mp3<http://mailer.samanage.com/wf/click?upn=NrFWbrBstcrPWP369qgbqlXiSKeL20xnUXzI03Zqpsu8-2FlAFxfTjFrQF-2BDS3NK-2FDeGB5H1p-2BPUcbJuYloT5WtA-3D-3D_QuA5zZR9ZZ7J1F2FeF-2FOsgm1hgIDcBrAX2P7Ezxmql7ckJc4ios1-2BxObAoz2rzLSI3c4QB1NGo7bw7XrBjpRCbz74w4vzk48UxZMFoBBQBQaQ0ePdiOjdJ30sQNHkokOf-2F2p-2FBvMgKvMhzp-2B4u8fP-2BRrSytHe2KCf2HpQmtSbpezMgNTUG57PiORAPesOotpHA-2BC4pSmXJRsVmpbNaLqzlVFwaWKfkG8hBrOPQ-2FxfM8VTLsVfB50UJRLIceXIVz7fGGjWUeH7fM0aZVVLCwIkFA-2BO8lD7Kui-2B9KnJe0DiEHPitZkspwSNGjVR89AXldZW0yHqJzVlP-2FuLX8xbyKJRrT8gHBMRZGi7pspV5fCPJ0L-2Fy3Oidcy186Kn7F38BWsErhlfMeTPmhSvO0y7kMrSCm5-2BLpiWe-2Fg-2BOiPvXwywC-2F0hQn87YTlMUJZ3ANUOhF3FEIn-2FNISKHglxLXWKa51C8-2BxWOIC2wrB4wPb68oNbjzbS2YGJzKCrUJBRVwDDCLc>

On page:


The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:



Graeme Bunton ­ RrSG
Val Sherman ­ IPC

Kathy Kleiman ­ NCSG

Stephanie Perrin ­ NCSG

Terri Stumme ­ BC

Todd Williams ­ IPC
Sara Bockey ­ RrSG
Roger Carney - RrSG
Frank Michlick ­ Individual

Steve Metalitz – IPC

Volker Greimann - RrSG

Sarah Wyld – RrSG

Darcy Southwell – RrSG

James Bladel ­ RrSG

David Hughes - IPC
Phil Corwin – BC
James Gannon ­ NCUC
Holly Raiche ­ ALAC
Paul McGrady ­ IPC
Dick Leaning, Individul
Susan Prosser RrSG
Susan Kawaguchi – BC
Vicky Scheckler IPC
Alex Deacon - IPC
Luc Seufer RrSG
David Cake- NCSG

Carlton Samuels – ALAC
Griffin Barnett- IPC

Kiran Malancharuvil - IPC

Osvaldo Novoa – ISPCP
Rudi Vansnick – NPOC
Lindsay Hamilton-Reid ­ RrSG

Apologies :
Don Blumenthal - RySG
Michele Neylon - RrSG

ICANN staff:

Marika Konings

Mary Wong

Amy Bivins

Nathalie Peregrine

** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **

Mailing list archives:

Wiki page:


Thank you.

Kind regards,



 Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday 25 August 2015

 Nathalie  Peregrine:Dear all, welcome to the PPSAI WG call on the 25th August 2015

  Holly Raiche:So how was the tea?
  Graeme Bunton - RrSG:Haven't tried it yet, still too hot
  James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Hi All, good afternoon from rainy Ireland
  Stephanie Perrin:Should we all buy new raincoats before Dublin, James?  Sounds wet....
  Holly Raiche:Does it ever not rain in Ireland!
  James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Yes please bring waterproof clothing in October
  James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Haha basicaally no =)
  Alex Deacon:morning all.
  Dick Leaning:noted :-)
  James Bladel:Sorry, but I cannot hear Alex.
  James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Very quiet
  Holly Raiche:Sounds almost under water
  Nathalie  Peregrine:Alex Deacon's comments might not be captrued on the recordings, he is too faint
  Nathalie  Peregrine:*captured
  Graeme Bunton - RrSG:Subteam site: https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=54691534
  James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Yes I think that the important thing here is the differentiation between a request and a legal requirement (Eg. Nat Sec Letter, Gag order)
  steve metalitz:Note that the draft recommendations Val is describing appear in the summary section of the document beginning on page 11
  Alex Deacon:summary is that I plan to send a draft set of recommendations and proposed updates to the report for Question 1 for review this week.
  Mary Wong:Thanks, Steve - apologies, I should have noted that for everyone!
  Stephanie Perrin:lost sound for quite a while there
  Graeme Bunton - RrSG:Just you Stephanie, i think.
  James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:And Privacy law may also apply in some jusrisdictions
  James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Alex I think your mic is open
  Luc Seufer:I  am hearing an echo and a washing machine
  Mary Wong:Think it's gone now, not sure who or what it was
  Alex Deacon:should be closed now.
  James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Perfect thanks!
  James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:I have discovered swiping right on a macbook trackpad now goes back to the last page loaded oops!
  Graeme Bunton - RrSG:Can we make sure that lands on Sub team 3s plate Mary?
  Mary Wong:Got it
  James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Yes
  steve metalitz:For example our recommendations 6-8 deal with disclosure of p/p service provider policies.  The tentative recommendations from the subgroup fon qs. 2 and 3 support these.
  steve metalitz:subgroup on 2 and 3
  Dick Leaning:James is correct- same type of thing in the UK
  James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Yes essentially we shouldnt get invoved in national law issues.
  James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Just point them to lookat their own jurisdictions
  steve metalitz:@Stephanie can you give a specific example of a case where providers would be required by law to disclose to customer that there had been a request from law enforcement?
  Holly Raiche:I think what we are doing is have aa baseline set of rules - providers can have terms of service aove that
  Holly Raiche:'above'
  Stephanie Perrin:yes, needs to be applicable law...includes international
  James Bladel:No objection to Paul's change.  I thin kthat mirrors language in the RAA.
  Holly Raiche:applicable is fine
  Luc Seufer:I am fine with applicable it's more comprehensive
  Paul McGrady:Thanks!
  James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Works for me
  James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Understood , I would oike to see providers enabled to make a call on some way of blanking out details when they provider determines its a genuine user but still wants to terminate.
  Luc Seufer:a sentence with a "reasonnable" in bold letter comes to mind
  Mary Wong:@Phil, the WG's prelim rec #8 says providers must  disclose in ToS "specific grounds upon which a customer’s details may be Disclosed or Published or service suspended or terminated"
  Kathy Kleiman:@Steve: in response to the question to Stephanie above,  there are privacy laws that require consent of the customer/patron/client before certain information is disclosed to law enforcement (especially where LE is operating without a court order). In those cases, the customer would be notified (by law)
  James Bladel:Sorry....
  steve metalitz:@Kathy, thanks, can you provide a citation?
  James Bladel:Yield to the queue
  James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:https://dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=1467&ad=1#5.
  James Bladel:Only if your P/P provider violated their accreditation agreement.
  Stephanie Perrin:How does one prove that they violated it?
  steve metalitz:WG Rec. 8 also requires provider to spell out whether customer is notified of disclosure request.
  Stephanie Perrin:I think that just as there are allegations that bogus proxy service providers exist to hide crooks, bogus PP providers may crop up to entrap
  Val Sherman:Yes
  Val Sherman:sorry - -that was responding to Graeme
  Stephanie Perrin:This is why we need some kind of robust appeal mechanism, and not rely on contract law in each jurisdiction as discussed in the earlier question
  Holly Raiche:I hink we have to be careful to say LEA in the provider's jurisdiction
  Volker A. Greimann:Indeed, but there is no guarantee that the malware /spam/etc is distributed by the domain owner
  Volker A. Greimann:in most cases, it is likely a hacked wordpress
  Kathy Kleiman:@Steve: agree these are difficult questions without easy answers (non-LE/non-IP) -- but neither are they "implementation details" for ICANN staff. So another group would need to develop this through the PDP process...
  Stephanie Perrin:An LEA has to provide lawful authority to prevent disclosure to the individual in many jurisdictions.  Regrettably, it is not always the case that the offiicer  making the request is necessarily  doing so according to the letter of the law.  This is why it is important to spell out best practices so that providers will at least be aware of what they should be requestioning in terms of authority, according to applocable law.  Obviousl y
  Stephanie Perrin:this does not apply so much to the large providers.
  Stephanie Perrin:That was requesting, of course, sorry
  James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Yes just need to keep tying everyhting together as we work along through the subteams
  Mary Wong:Sub Team 2
  Mary Wong:On SEction 1.3.3 (online financial transactions)
  James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:thanks all
  Paul McGrady:great call!
  Luc Seufer:Merci
  Mary Wong:Thanks Sub Team 1 and everyone!
  Val Sherman:Thanks all
  James Bladel:Thanks

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