[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] MP3 PPSAI WG - Tuesday 17 March 2015 at 1500 UTC

Terri Agnew terri.agnew at icann.org
Tue Mar 17 18:26:48 UTC 2015

Dear All,

Please find the MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP Working group call held on Tuesday 17 March 2015 at 15:00 UTC at: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-17mar15-en.mp3

On page:


The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:



Frank Michlick - Individual

Justin Macy - BC

Val Sherman - IPC

Griffin Barnett - IPC

Kathy Kleiman - NCSG

Darcy Southwell - RrSG

Todd Williams - IPC

Steve Metalitz - IPC

Graeme Bunton - RrSG

Jim Bikoff - IPC

Holly Raiche - ALAC

Kiran Malancharuvil - IPC

Volker Greimann - RrSG

Alex Deacon -IPC
Sarah Wyld - RrSG
Stephanie Perrin - NCSG

James Bladel - RrSG

Tatiana Khramtsova - RrSG

Susan Kawaguchi - BC

Terri Stumme - BC

Phil Corwin - BC

Luc Seufer - RrSG

Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP

David Hughes - IPC

Chris Pelling - RrSG

Paul McGrady - IPC

Susan Prosser - RrSG

David Cake - NCSG

Apologies :

Don Blumenthal - RySG

Lindsay Hamilton-Reid - RrSG

Richard Leaning -  no soi

Michele Neylon- RrSG

ICANN staff:

Mary Wong

Marika Konings

Danielle Andela

Ariel Liang
Terri Agnew

** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **

Mailing list archives:

Wiki page:


Thank you.

Kind regards,

Terri Agnew


 Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday 17 March 2015

    Terri Agnew:Welcome to the PPSAI WG Meeting of 17 March 2015

  Kathy K:Hi All!

  Val Sherman:Jim Bikoff also on audio bridge

  Terri Agnew:I have added Jim to attendance list

  Terri Agnew:Susan Kawaguchi is on audio

  Mary Wong:Suggest we stay consistent with using "Disclosure" (in this instance) rather than Reveal?

  Terri Agnew:Frank Michlick has joined

  Terri Agnew:Stephanie Perrin has joined

  Terri Agnew:David Hughes has joined audio

  Terri Agnew:David Cake has joined

  Graeme Bunton:You can tell James has been logging in to CCWG/ICG calls to often, as he has the GNSO tag on his name

  Kiran Malancharuvil:Someone get James some coffee!

  Holly Raiche:We were picking what was seen as a hard case

  James Bladel-GNSO:Thanks, Steve.  Sorry for the side-track.

  Mary Wong:In the Initial Report, we will make it clear that this fairly detailed framework applies to IP requestors, but is an illustrative example of a disclosure framework that can be a model for other categories of requestors. Do note that the WG has yet to discuss whether and how this may apply to, e.g. LEA and other requestors.

  Mary Wong:It may be that we don't have sufficient depth of expertise or time to be as detailed with these other categories, in which case we may want to consider calling out this point for public comment.

  Graeme Bunton:thank you James

  Bladel - Happy Now, Graeme?::0

  Bladel - Happy Now, Graeme?:;)

  Terri Agnew:Luc Seufer has joined

  Holly Raiche:It's even earlier in Sydney

  Kiran Malancharuvil:You win Holly!

  Kiran Malancharuvil::)

  Volker Greimann:nothing much happens in August in Paris

  Kathy K:Sorry "Note" is not intended for final text...

  Kiran Malancharuvil:More happens in August in Paris than in Spain!  (But for the record, everyone stays pretty well connected)

  Volker Greimann:true, kiran

  Stephanie Perrin:I think the Nordics take the longest holidays..

  Val Sherman:Things happen all over the world at various times of year

  Val Sherman:these are not reasons to refuse disclosure in my opinion

  Kiran Malancharuvil:Good point Val and Steve.

  Kathy K:+1 James

  Paul McGrady:My call was cut off in the parking garage just as Kathy was getting started.  Sorry if I end up asking question about items already covered.

  Kathy K:the Providers has not found adequate reasons for disclosure...

  Val Sherman:sorry!

  Val Sherman:old

  Kathy K:Provider singular...

  Luc Seufer:even for those slam dunk cases, you need an arbitrator to render a ruling

  Luc Seufer:registrars and other prospective PP aren't as knwoledgeable as arbitrators from NAF

  Mary Wong:Agree with Kiran re "slam dunk" - culturally difficult.

  Stephanie Perrin:How about "irrefutable"?

  Holly Raiche:Maybe replace slam duck with something like compelling

  Graeme Bunton:Slam Duck is a hilarious typo.

  Luc Seufer:that's the down under version

  Susan Kawaguchi:I have to drop off for another call.  Agree with removing slam dunk, also not comfortable with anything after including but not limited to.

  Val Sherman:I like compelling

  Stephanie Perrin:Slam dunk implies that there is really no credible alternative, whereas compelling is not....there could be two compelling arguments, hence the need for complex case review,,,,

  Holly Raiche:Sorry re he spelling - but I'm glad Graeme likes it.

  Bladel - Happy Now, Graeme?:It's March, Slam Dunk works for me. :P

  Philip Corwin:Must depart for another call. regrets

  Terri Agnew:goodbye philip

  Kiran Malancharuvil:Agree with Steve that a Battered Woman's Shelter that has infringing content on its website is not excused from infringing.

  Kiran Malancharuvil:Although it is clear that those types of cases are very dangerous and we should not reveal locations willy nilly, I think we're trying to put good standards in place to protect all.

  Stephanie Perrin:I think we are conflating risk and reasonable grounds here, agree that if a requestor submits a slam-dunk case regarding a woman's shelter, the issue of the risk of revelation must be treated separately.

  Stephanie Perrin:A process diagram might be helpful here.

  Graeme Bunton:that's a good point Stephanie

  Kathy K:Lots to discuss in appeals

  Luc Seufer:Agreed Stephanie, we had a case where someone was asking us to suspend a website because it was hosting illegal material (phishing) and it appeared that it was the complainant who hacked the website of our customer to place the illegal content to have it suspended.

  Stephanie Perrin:@Luc yes and I am assured by the folks who defend free speech that this is a constant problem....in fact, when we were setting up the recommendations for anonymous domain registration in the EWG, I agreed to enhanced security mechanisms because those who need anonymous registration also need enhanced security to defend against constant attempts to tar them with malware etc,

  Mary Wong:Is it possible to combine I.C and the new III.G into a single paragraph somewhere?

  Kathy K:It certainly bears repeating here...perhaps as a note?

  Luc Seufer:I would keep both to make it crystal clear

  Holly Raiche:It's the jurisdiction in which the lawyeer practices

  David Cake:Nationality of the lawyer perhaps not, but fair use vs fair dealing jurisdiction might be significant in some circumstances

  Mary Wong:@Holly, @David - yes, I'm from Singapore but was employed by a law firm n its New York and then Brussels and London offices.

  Mary Wong:So may be preferable to specify jurisdiction rather than nationality?

  Kiran Malancharuvil:Much prefer jurisdiction to nationality

  Kiran Malancharuvil:Yes Steve, and while we recognize the vulnerability issues, that should be accounted for within the text and equally applied to all

  Val Sherman:+1 Steve -- need to add use examples if we go this route

  Mary Wong:FWIW there are ICANN staff members who have worked on privacy, data protection issues

  Kathy K:Tx Steve, Tx All!

  Val Sherman:Can we briefly address F2F meeting dates?

  Graeme Bunton:That was a lot of heavy lifting from Kathy, Steve and others, thank you.

  Frank Michlick:Thank you

  Holly Raiche:Thanks all

  Kiran Malancharuvil:Thanks to all drafters.  So much work and much appreciated.

  Mary Wong:@Val, we're checking dates and chairs will likely decide in the next couple of days

  David Cake:Thanks

  Val Sherman:Thanks Mary!

  Val Sherman:thanks all!

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