[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Use case for WHOIS/RDP

Mon Aug 15 22:25:51 UTC 2016

Ayden, the “types of checks” done for SSL/TLS certs fall into 3 categories:

·        DV (domain validation): the most basic form of authentication performed by the CA.  It essentially checks to see if the application for a cert has control over the domain for which the cert will be issued.

·        OV (organization validation): the CA checks information about the organization (e.g., the company or business entity) that has applied for the cert.

·        EV (extra validation): in addition to the OV checks, the CA checks for whether the individual who is applying for the cert is authorized to do so.

The processes for OV and EV authentication is defined by the CA/Browser Forum at https://cabforum.org/extended-validation/.

Netcraft is a third-party organization which monitors the number of publicly-facing SSL/TLS certs.  A Netcraft report with data from July 2016 is attached – they saw ~5.5m certificates.

It is good to think of SSL/TLS certs as being like subscriptions – they each have a period of being valid, and they are usually renewed at the end of their periods.  I am unaware of any publicly-available data on the variety of periods, but anecdotally, many are annual.  Let’s Encrypt uses a 6 month period for theirs, and some are as low as a week (these a unusual).

I am unaware of any report that shows sales data related to SSL/TLS certs – most CAs are either private (and do not report numbers) or are parts of larger organizations (like Symantec, where I work, and do not break out sales numbers at that level).  My sense is that the SSL/TLS cert business is less than $1b/year.

Thanks…

Geoff

From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Deacon, Alex
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 3:06 PM
To: Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>
Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Use case for WHOIS/RDP

Hi Ayden,

Lets not forget that in terms of protecting user privacy the use of encryption is vital, so I believe this is an important use case.   All web server certificates, no matter which flavor of CA is used (from self-signed, to free to high-end) will result in data encryption at the transport layer.   While the encryption is the same (assuming properly configured servers/clients)  the difference between TLS certs is the level of authentication of the entity the server represents.

Its way out of scope to dive deeper into the various CA business models, but search for Domain Validated, Organizational Validated and Extended Validated for more details on some of the various levels of “authentication”.

Alex

On Aug 15, 2016, at 2:41 PM, Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com<mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>> wrote:

Thanks for this clarification, Theo. What would be the difference between these basic SSL certificates and those offered freely by, say, Let's Encrypt? (I'm just trying to get a sense of what forms of identity validation are used besides automated WHOIS/DNS checks here, and to understand whether or not other identity checks might be economical for the Digital Certificate Authority. Thanks.)

- Ayden

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Use case for WHOIS/RDP
Local Time: August 15, 2016 9:00 PM
UTC Time: August 15, 2016 8:00 PM
From: gtheo at xs4all.nl<mailto:gtheo at xs4all.nl>
To: icann at ferdeline.com<mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>,Geoffrey_Noakes at symantec.com<mailto:Geoffrey_Noakes at symantec.com>
gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>

Hi Ayden,
These types of SSL certificates are pretty cheap and the verification is pretty simple. Can be through a verification by email or a code in the name servers, as long you can prove control over the domain name.
The Extended Validation SSL certificates require way more verification. These are the ones you usually see for web shops and have this "green" bar in the web browser.
Best regards,
Theo Geurts

On 15-8-2016 20:16, Ayden Férdeline wrote:
If I understand this use case correctly, when an SSL certificate is purchased, your system is sending an automated message to the registrant or the technical contact's email address as listed in WHOIS records. If the recipient of this email clicks a URL, it validates the certificate?

If this is the case, I would like to understand how commonplace this practice is. Are these emails only sent once, when the certificate is initially purchased? I cannot imagine a significant volume of these certificates are purchased on a daily basis, and I struggle to believe that there could be more than, say, 200 such certification bodies globally. If my assumptions are correct, are we talking, here, about a use case applicable to only a handful of businesses worldwide? Businesses selling these certificates for large volumes of money?

The other issue I see is that there is very little verification of information in WHOIS as it stands today. To rely on the email addresses stored in WHOIS to authenticate a certificate strikes me as flawed. Would it not be more appropriate for the Certification Authority to visit the domain name in question, call the phone number listed on their website, and to clarify with the contact that claims to have purchased your service that they have purchased your service? If the website does not list even the number for a switchboard, perhaps that should raise red flags?

- Ayden

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Use case for WHOIS/RDP
Local Time: August 15, 2016 6:40 PM
UTC Time: August 15, 2016 5:40 PM
From: Geoffrey_Noakes at symantec.com<mailto:Geoffrey_Noakes at symantec.com>
To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>

I’ve attached a use case for WHOIS/RDP.

Thanks…

Geoff

From: Lisa Phifer [mailto:lisa at corecom.com]
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:37 AM
To: Geoffrey Noakes <Geoffrey_Noakes at symantec.com><mailto:Geoffrey_Noakes at symantec.com>
Subject: RE: Use Case

Hi Geoff, it's <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>

For further info, see mailing list archives:  http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/

As a WG member, you are on that mailing list, so if you're not currently receiving email from that list, please let me or the GNSO secretariat gnso-secs at icann.org<mailto:gnso-secs at icann.org> know.

Thanks again
Lisa

At 11:19 AM 8/15/2016, Geoffrey Noakes wrote:

Lisa, what is the “WG email list” email address?

From: Lisa Phifer [ mailto:lisa at corecom.com]
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 10:17 AM
To: Geoffrey Noakes <Geoffrey_Noakes at symantec.com<mailto:Geoffrey_Noakes at symantec.com>>
Subject: RE: Use Case

Thanks Geoff and welcome back. I hope you had an excellent vacation.

I will upload your case to the WG's table of example use cases and see that the case is included on the 23 August call agenda.

In addition, it is best if you would also email this example use case directly to the WG email list so that any comments that may be provided on the mailing list in advance of the call will be sent to your attention.

Best, Lisa

At 11:11 AM 8/15/2016, you wrote:

+Lisa (we had a side conversation about this), plus some Symantec employees who are involved in this

Chuck, I am just back from a week of PTO.  I’ve attached a markup of a document originally authored by Scott Hollenbeck of VeriSign, which is essentially the use case for a CA’s use of WHOIS.

I would prefer the August 23 date – I am on jury duty the week of August 29-September 2.

Thanks…

Geoff

From: Gomes, Chuck [ mailto:cgomes at verisign.com]
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 9:53 AM
To: Geoffrey Noakes < Geoffrey_Noakes at symantec.com<mailto:Geoffrey_Noakes at symantec.com>>
Cc: RDS-Leaders-List ( gnso-next-gen-rds-lead at icann.org<mailto:gnso-next-gen-rds-lead at icann.org>) < gnso-next-gen-rds-lead at icann.org<mailto:gnso-next-gen-rds-lead at icann.org>>
Subject: Use Case

Geoff,

You volunteered to prepare a use case for Certificate Authorities.  We hope to discuss that use case in the WG meeting on either August 23 or August 30?  Which date would work better for you?  In either case, we would need the use case to be submitted to the WG list 24 hours in advance.

Hope you are having a good vacation.

Chuck

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