[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] For WG Review - Redlined Problem Statement

Wed Aug 24 14:47:07 UTC 2016

Unless someone can help us understand how this discussion is relevant to the tasks in front of us and particularly to our near term work, I suggest that we curtail it.  If we discover it to be relevant later, we can resume it then although it is not clear to me that it will be.  I also note that Andrew has pointed this out several times.

I think all of us have very busy schedules and it is challenging to keep up with everything on this list.  When a lot of time is spent discussing issues that are not pertinent to our work, I fear that it will cause some members to lose interest and/or stop reading posts on the list.

Chuck

From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Greg Shatan
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 1:57 AM
To: Winterfeldt, Brian J.
Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] For WG Review - Redlined Problem Statement

I've taken a deeper look at this 5% (or 8%) "awareness" number that is being bandied about.

This is a misuse of the data.  The question did not ask about awareness of WHOIS.  The answer cannot be cited to demonstrate awareness of WHOIS; to do so is misleading.  The more I look at the data, the less appropriate it is to cite as if it answers this question.  As Mark Twain once said, "There are three kinds of lies.  Lies, damned lies, and statistics."

My primary conclusion after looking at the data is that it is useless to prove anything about "awareness of WHOIS."

My secondary conclusion is that, even if one were to attempt extract some understanding of use of WHOIS (not even awareness, which is impossible), relying solely on the WHOIS subset is inappropriate and likely a significant underestimation of those who used WHOIS.

First, this is a follow-up question to a users who had "tried to identify who created a particular website" (not "who owns a particular domain name," which would more likely lead to the use of WHOIS, since "who created a particular website" may have nothing to do with the question of domain ownership.

Those who had tried were asked "What did you use to figure this out?" (i.e., figure out who "created a particular website").  It's unclear but possible thaqt only a single answer was allowed, even if the user used multiple tools.  The fact that 5% or 8% chose to list their use of WHOIS to see who "created a particular website" (not "who owned a particular domain name") proves nothing about awareness of WHOIS among those who used other tools.

Notably, WHOIS as an answer is grouped with other "Specific Site Search" answers - the rest being Google, Baidu, GoDaddy, DNS records and "other specific site search mentions."  (The fact that "WHOIS" is listed as a "specific site search" is enough to make one question the validity of the analysis.)

Of those who tried to figure who created a particular site, the greatest number turned to search engines -- not surprising among general users, as search is often the primary tool used to find out anything  on the Internet.  That does not in any way demonstrate their lack of awareness of WHOIS.

Also, the WHOIS answer likely undercounts those who actually used WHOIS.  There are other answers that may also refer to WHOIS, some with answers nearly as high as those who expressly identified WHOIS as the "specific site" they searched:

Domain/IP Address search (5% in 2015, 5% in 2016)
Online/Internet tools (Unspecified) (0%, 1%)
Using specific sites that classify/provide information on sites (5%, 2%)
Check registration/if it’s registered/certificate (2%, 2%)
Research (Unspecified) (4%, 1%)
GoDaddy (0%, less than 1%)
TOTAL 16%, 11%

It's impossible to know how many of these refer to WHOIS, but even a minority would double the percentage in each year.

Finally, it's worth noting that the number who answered the same question with the answer "Google" were 10% in 2015 and 14% in 2016.  It would be ludicrous to say that this indicates 10% "awareness" of Google in 2015 and 14% "awareness" of Google in 2016.  Yet people somehow people feel comfortable applying this characterization to the WHOIS answer.  I think this is a strong indication that Mark Twain was right.

On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 12:55 AM, Winterfeldt, Brian J. <BWinterfeldt at mayerbrown.com<mailto:BWinterfeldt at mayerbrown.com>> wrote:
+1 Susan also.
Brian J. Winterfeldt
Co-Head of Global Brand Management and Internet Practice
Mayer Brown LLP
bwinterfeldt at mayerbrown.com<mailto:bwinterfeldt at mayerbrown.com>
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Washington, DC  20006-1101
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On Aug 23, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Kiran Malancharuvil via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>> wrote:
+1 Susan.

Kiran Malancharuvil
Policy Counselor
MarkMonitor
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415.419.9138<tel:415.419.9138> (m)
www.markmonitor.com<http://www.markmonitor.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Susan Kawaguchi
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2016 9:35 AM
To: Volker Greimann; gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] For WG Review - Redlined Problem Statement

Volker,

I completely disagree with your statement most registrants do not even what whois isŠ.  I might agree with most internet users do not know what registration data is or where to find it but a good portion of domain names are registered to commercial entities who completely understand the whois and use it daily for domain name management.

I am sure you receive inquiries about whois from some registrants but I would guess the vast majority of registrants understand whois.
Susan Kawaguchi
Domain Name Manager
Facebook Legal Dept.

On 8/23/16, 9:27 AM, "gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Volker Greimann" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:

I tend to agree. Most registrants do not even know what whois is...

Volker

Am 23.08.2016 um 18:17 schrieb Rob Golding:
Are you suggesting that registrants do not have a vested interest in
an
RDS
system?
Correct - I believe they have a vested interest in there not being an
RDS  system

Rob

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