[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] For WG Review - Redlined Problem Statement
Stephanie Perrin
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
Wed Aug 24 22:38:03 UTC 2016
I too would like to heed Chuck's advice, but have a burning question:
Do registries have any way of distinguishing between bots and people, in
their citing of stats? If so, how? Could some kind of authentication
protocol do this?
thanks
Stephanie
On 2016-08-24 17:42, Ayden Férdeline wrote:
> I’m going to heed Chuck’s advice, but just to respond briefly to your
> message, Elaine, the number of queries you cited does not necessarily
> translate into human beings performing these searches. So to your
> comment that, “clearly people aware of whois are using it” – sure, but
> what is not clear to me from the figures you have extracted is how
> many unique individuals we talking about.
>
> - Ayden
>
>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] For WG Review - Redlined Problem Statement
>> Local Time: August 24, 2016 10:28 PM
>> UTC Time: August 24, 2016 9:28 PM
>> From: elaine at donuts.email
>> To:
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>
>> I love statistics.
>> Registries must self report whois look up data.
>> https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/registry-reports
>> For example, in .com April 2016 ALONE
>> “Whois” Queries* In Millions* 15,000.3
>> Web-based Whois 6,960,159
>>
>> Clearly people aware of whois are using it.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 10:57 PM, Greg Shatan
>> <gregshatanipc at gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I've taken a deeper look at this 5% (or 8%) "awareness" number
>> that is being bandied about.
>>
>> This is a misuse of the data. The question did not ask about
>> awareness of WHOIS. The answer cannot be cited to demonstrate
>> awareness of WHOIS; to do so is misleading. The more I look at
>> the data, the less appropriate it is to cite as if it answers
>> this question. As Mark Twain once said, "There are three kinds
>> of lies. Lies, damned lies, and statistics."
>>
>> *My primary conclusion after looking at the data is that it is
>> useless to prove anything about "awareness of WHOIS." *
>>
>> My secondary conclusion is that, even if one were to attempt
>> extract some understanding of _use_ of WHOIS (not even awareness,
>> which is impossible), relying solely on the WHOIS subset is
>> inappropriate and likely a significant underestimation of those
>> who used WHOIS.
>>
>> First, this is a follow-up question to a users who had "tried to
>> identify who created a particular website" (not "who owns a
>> particular domain name," which would more likely lead to the use
>> of WHOIS, since "who created a particular website" may have
>> nothing to do with the question of domain ownership.
>>
>> Those who had tried were asked "What did you use to figure this
>> out?" (i.e., figure out who "created a particular website").
>> It's unclear but possible thaqt only a single answer was allowed,
>> even if the user used multiple tools. The fact that 5% or 8%
>> chose to list their use of WHOIS to see who "created a particular
>> website" (not "who owned a particular domain name") proves
>> nothing about _awareness_ of WHOIS among those who used other tools.
>>
>> Notably, WHOIS as an answer is grouped with other "Specific Site
>> Search" answers - the rest being Google, Baidu, GoDaddy, DNS
>> records and "other specific site search mentions." (The fact
>> that "WHOIS" is listed as a "specific site search" is enough to
>> make one question the validity of the analysis.)
>>
>> Of those who tried to figure who created a particular site, the
>> greatest number turned to search engines -- not surprising among
>> general users, as search is often the primary tool used to find
>> out _anything _ on the Internet. That does not in any way
>> demonstrate their lack of awareness of WHOIS.
>>
>> Also, the WHOIS answer likely undercounts those who actually used
>> WHOIS. There are other answers that may also refer to WHOIS,
>> some with answers nearly as high as those who expressly
>> identified WHOIS as the "specific site" they searched:
>>
>> Domain/IP Address search (5% in 2015, 5% in 2016)
>> Online/Internet tools (Unspecified) (0%, 1%)
>> Using specific sites that classify/provide information on sites
>> (5%, 2%)
>> Check registration/if it’s registered/certificate (2%, 2%)
>> Research (Unspecified) (4%, 1%)
>> GoDaddy (0%, less than 1%)
>> TOTAL 16%, 11%
>>
>> It's impossible to know how many of these refer to WHOIS, but
>> even a minority would double the percentage in each year.
>>
>> Finally, it's worth noting that the number who answered the same
>> question with the answer "Google" were 10% in 2015 and 14% in
>> 2016. It would be ludicrous to say that this indicates 10%
>> "awareness" of Google in 2015 and 14% "awareness" of Google in
>> 2016. Yet people somehow people feel comfortable applying this
>> characterization to the WHOIS answer. I think this is a strong
>> indication that Mark Twain was right.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 12:55 AM, Winterfeldt, Brian J.
>> <BWinterfeldt at mayerbrown.com
>> <mailto:BWinterfeldt at mayerbrown.com>> wrote:
>>
>> +1 Susan also.
>>
>>
>> *Brian J. Winterfeldt*
>>
>> Co-Head of Global Brand Management and Internet Practice
>>
>> Mayer Brown LLP
>>
>> bwinterfeldt at mayerbrown.com <mailto:bwinterfeldt at mayerbrown.com>
>>
>> 1999 K Street, NW
>>
>> Washington, DC 20006-1101
>>
>> 202.263.3284 <tel:202.263.3284> direct dial
>>
>> 202.830.0330 <tel:202.830.0330> fax
>>
>>
>> 1221 Avenue of the Americas
>>
>> New York, New York 10020-1001
>>
>> 212.506.2345 <tel:212.506.2345> direct dial
>>
>>
>> On Aug 23, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Kiran Malancharuvil via
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>> wrote:
>>
>>> +1 Susan.
>>>
>>>
>>> Kiran Malancharuvil
>>> Policy Counselor
>>> MarkMonitor
>>> 415.222.8318 <tel:415.222.8318> (t)
>>> 415.419.9138 <tel:415.419.9138> (m)
>>> www.markmonitor.com <http://www.markmonitor.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>
>>> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>] On Behalf Of
>>> Susan Kawaguchi
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2016 9:35 AM
>>> To: Volker Greimann; gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] For WG Review - Redlined
>>> Problem Statement
>>>
>>> Volker,
>>>
>>> I completely disagree with your statement most registrants
>>> do not even what whois isŠ. I might agree with most
>>> internet users do not know what registration data is or
>>> where to find it but a good portion of domain names are
>>> registered to commercial entities who completely understand
>>> the whois and use it daily for domain name management.
>>>
>>> I am sure you receive inquiries about whois from some
>>> registrants but I would guess the vast majority of
>>> registrants understand whois.
>>> Susan Kawaguchi
>>> Domain Name Manager
>>> Facebook Legal Dept.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/23/16, 9:27 AM, "gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of
>>> Volker Greimann" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of
>>> vgreimann at key-systems.net
>>> <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I tend to agree. Most registrants do not even know what
>>>> whois is...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Volker
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 23.08.2016 um 18:17 schrieb Rob Golding:
>>>>>> Are you suggesting that registrants do not have a vested
>>>>>> interest in
>>>>>> an
>>>>> RDS
>>>>>> system?
>>>>> Correct - I believe they have a vested interest in there
>>>>> not being an
>>>>> RDS system
>>>>>
>>>>> Rob
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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