[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] For WG Review - Redlined Problem Statement

Wed Aug 24 22:44:21 UTC 2016

Anecdotally, as a regular user of WHOISes, I would say that most if not all
WHOIS access pages have "Captchas" or other bot-defenders.  Not a direct
answer to your question, perhaps, but at least an observation.

GregBot

On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Stephanie Perrin <
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:

> I too would like to heed Chuck's advice, but have a burning question:  Do
> registries have any way of distinguishing between bots and people, in their
> citing of stats?  If so, how?  Could some kind of authentication protocol
> do this?
>
> thanks
>
> Stephanie
>
> On 2016-08-24 17:42, Ayden Férdeline wrote:
>
> I’m going to heed Chuck’s advice, but just to respond briefly to your
> message, Elaine, the number of queries you cited does not necessarily
> translate into human beings performing these searches. So to your comment
> that, “clearly people aware of whois are using it” – sure, but what is not
> clear to me from the figures you have extracted is how many unique
> individuals we talking about.
>
> - Ayden
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] For WG Review - Redlined Problem Statement
> Local Time: August 24, 2016 10:28 PM
> UTC Time: August 24, 2016 9:28 PM
> From: elaine at donuts.email
> To:
> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>
> I love statistics.
> Registries must self report whois look up data.  https://www.icann.org/
> resources/pages/registry-reports
> For example, in .com April 2016 ALONE
> “Whois” Queries* In Millions* 15,000.3
> Web-based Whois  6,960,159
>
> Clearly people aware of whois are using it.
>
> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 10:57 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I've taken a deeper look at this 5% (or 8%) "awareness" number that is
>> being bandied about.
>>
>> This is a misuse of the data.  The question did not ask about awareness
>> of WHOIS.  The answer cannot be cited to demonstrate awareness of WHOIS; to
>> do so is misleading.  The more I look at the data, the less appropriate it
>> is to cite as if it answers this question.  As Mark Twain once said, "There
>> are three kinds of lies.  Lies, damned lies, and statistics."
>>
>> *My primary conclusion after looking at the data is that it is useless to
>> prove anything about "awareness of WHOIS." *
>>
>> My secondary conclusion is that, even if one were to attempt extract some
>> understanding of *use* of WHOIS (not even awareness, which is
>> impossible), relying solely on the WHOIS subset is inappropriate and likely
>> a significant underestimation of those who used WHOIS.
>>
>> First, this is a follow-up question to a users who had "tried to identify
>> who created a particular website" (not "who owns a particular domain name,"
>> which would more likely lead to the use of WHOIS, since "who created a
>> particular website" may have nothing to do with the question of domain
>> ownership.
>>
>> Those who had tried were asked "What did you use to figure this out?"
>> (i.e., figure out who "created a particular website").  It's unclear but
>> possible thaqt only a single answer was allowed, even if the user used
>> multiple tools.  The fact that 5% or 8% chose to list their use of WHOIS to
>> see who "created a particular website" (not "who owned a particular domain
>> name") proves nothing about *awareness* of WHOIS among those who used
>> other tools.
>>
>> Notably, WHOIS as an answer is grouped with other "Specific Site Search"
>> answers - the rest being Google, Baidu, GoDaddy, DNS records and "other
>> specific site search mentions."  (The fact that "WHOIS" is listed as a
>> "specific site search" is enough to make one question the validity of the
>> analysis.)
>>
>> Of those who tried to figure who created a particular site, the greatest
>> number turned to search engines -- not surprising among general users, as
>> search is often the primary tool used to find out *anything * on the
>> Internet.  That does not in any way demonstrate their lack of awareness of
>> WHOIS.
>>
>> Also, the WHOIS answer likely undercounts those who actually used WHOIS.
>> There are other answers that may also refer to WHOIS, some with answers
>> nearly as high as those who expressly identified WHOIS as the "specific
>> site" they searched:
>>
>> Domain/IP Address search (5% in 2015, 5% in 2016)
>> Online/Internet tools (Unspecified) (0%, 1%)
>> Using specific sites that classify/provide information on sites (5%, 2%)
>> Check registration/if it’s registered/certificate (2%, 2%)
>> Research (Unspecified) (4%, 1%)
>> GoDaddy (0%, less than 1%)
>> TOTAL 16%, 11%
>>
>> It's impossible to know how many of these refer to WHOIS, but even a
>> minority would double the percentage in each year.
>>
>> Finally, it's worth noting that the number who answered the same question
>> with the answer "Google" were 10% in 2015 and 14% in 2016.  It would be
>> ludicrous to say that this indicates 10% "awareness" of Google in 2015 and
>> 14% "awareness" of Google in 2016.  Yet people somehow people feel
>> comfortable applying this characterization to the WHOIS answer.  I think
>> this is a strong indication that Mark Twain was right.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 12:55 AM, Winterfeldt, Brian J. <
>> BWinterfeldt at mayerbrown.com> wrote:
>>
>>> +1 Susan also.
>>>
>>>
>>> *Brian J. Winterfeldt*
>>>
>>> Co-Head of Global Brand Management and Internet Practice
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>>> On Aug 23, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Kiran Malancharuvil via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <
>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> +1 Susan.
>>>
>>>
>>> Kiran Malancharuvil
>>> Policy Counselor
>>> MarkMonitor
>>> 415.222.8318 (t)
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>>> www.markmonitor.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounce
>>> s at icann.org <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>] On Behalf Of Susan
>>> Kawaguchi
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2016 9:35 AM
>>> To: Volker Greimann; gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] For WG Review - Redlined Problem Statement
>>>
>>> Volker,
>>>
>>> I completely disagree with your statement most registrants do not even
>>> what whois isŠ.  I might agree with most internet users do not know what
>>> registration data is or where to find it but a good portion of domain names
>>> are registered to commercial entities who completely understand the whois
>>> and use it daily for domain name management.
>>>
>>> I am sure you receive inquiries about whois from some registrants but I
>>> would guess the vast majority of registrants understand whois.
>>> Susan Kawaguchi
>>> Domain Name Manager
>>> Facebook Legal Dept.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/23/16, 9:27 AM, "gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org on behalf of
>>> Volker Greimann" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org on behalf of
>>> vgreimann at key-systems.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I tend to agree. Most registrants do not even know what whois is...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Volker
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 23.08.2016 um 18:17 schrieb Rob Golding:
>>>
>>> Are you suggesting that registrants do not have a vested interest in
>>>
>>> an
>>>
>>> RDS
>>>
>>> system?
>>>
>>> Correct - I believe they have a vested interest in there not being an
>>>
>>> RDS  system
>>>
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>
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